GRIEF AND LIGHT

Healing the Father Wound and Sacred Lessons with Mike de la Rocha

• Nina Rodriguez • Season 4 • Episode 80

Share episode

In this powerful episode, strategist, musician, and author Mike de la Rocha opens up about healing generational trauma, redefining masculinity, and reconnecting with his father through emotional truth-telling.

***Click here to watch on YouTube***

Drawing from his debut book Sacred Lessons: Teaching My Father How to Love, Mike explores how grief, silence, and inherited definitions of manhood shaped his early life—and how choosing vulnerability, mentorship, and collective healing became transformative. This intimate conversation unpacks the emotional cost of disconnection, the ancestral wisdom that guides us, and why healing the masculine lineage is essential for future generations. From the power of Ubuntu to the ongoing presence of loved ones beyond the veil, Mike reminds us that true healing is never solitary—it’s sacred, relational, and deeply human.

Whether you're navigating your own father wound, unpacking what it means to be a man in today’s world, or seeking connection with those you've lost, this episode offers insight, hope, and a path toward repair.

Grief Support Resources for the Road:

  1. Grief Tending Toolkit
  2. Access our online community

Key Takeaways:

  • Healing yourself can create ripple effects across your family, including your father.
  • Sacred Lessons is both personal memoir and a collective call to interrupt cycles of silence and disconnection.
  • True healing is communal—it requires community, mentors, and intergenerational support.
  • Redefining masculinity starts with emotional honesty, not suppression.
  • Nature, ancestral practices, and rituals can anchor us during times of grief and transformation.
  • The philosophy of Ubuntu ("I am because we are") underscores our collective healing journey.
  • We remain connected to those we’ve lost through continued bonds and spiritual presence.
  • Societal norms around manhood are shifting—and there is real hope in that change.
  • Listening with openness is the first step toward breaking inherited patterns.
  • Healing the masculine is healing the world.

Guest: Mike de la Rocha

Hosted by: Nina Rodriguez

Subscribe for more conversations that explore grief, healing, and what it means to be human.


Support the show

Thank you for listening! Please share with someone who may need to hear this.

Disclaimer: griefandlight.com/safetyanddisclaimers

That's why I kept coming back to the lines. I have a tough time expressing myself and for that reason, I hardly ever do. I am learning and your mama is the best teacher in the world. In those two sentences, my father encapsulated the ultimate sacred lesson. We can only heal if we choose to listen and learn from those who keep us honest. We can only grow if we are willing to let go of society's expectations

of how men and women should act. We can only live our full and authentic lives if we learn how to truly love and accept our own selves.

You just lost your loved one. Now what? Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast where we explore this new reality through grief-colored lenses. Openly, authentically, I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started. What if by healing ourselves we could begin to heal what our fathers couldn't? Today's guest is someone whose work lives at the intersection of art, advocacy, and emotional truth. Mike de la Rocha is a visionary strategist, acclaimed musician,

change maker and now author. His debut book, Sacred Lessons, Teaching My Father How to Love, was released this June through Simon Schuster. In it, Mike invites us into a deeply personal journey, exploring how inherited ideas of manhood shaped his relationship with his father and ultimately with himself. The book offers far more than a memoir. It's a call to examine the ways disconnection and silence are passed down.

and how we might begin to unlearn them. Through his own experiences with grief, vulnerability, and healing, Mike shows us what becomes possible when we choose love and curiosity over armor. Beyond the page, Mike is the co-founder of Revolved Impact, a movement-driven creative agency whose campaigns have reached millions and led to historic policy victories. His impact stretches beyond politics, music, and community healing.

And he brings all of that wisdom into today's conversation. I am so honored to welcome you to the Grief and Light podcast. Welcome, Mike.

Thank you so much, Nina. It's a pleasure. Absolute pleasure on this beautiful to be with you. So.

It's an absolute honor and first and foremost, I just want to thank you. Thank you for writing this book. Thank you for pouring your heart and soul into this important piece of literature because I believe your intention is to heal, one of your intentions is to heal the collective and that definitely was something that was received through the book in ways that I expected and in unseen ways. So thank you so much, first of all.

I received that thank you very very much

Absolutely. And I want to invite you to open up our conversation with a beautiful excerpt that I just think captures so much of the spirit of this book and for our audience to get a glimpse of some of your writing.

Yeah, I shared before we jumped on that I've been blessed to be on a 25 city tour across the country. I've done six states and almost 15 cities. And every time I speak, always ask my father not just to join me, but hey, Papa, what should I read? the passage you asked me to read is the one that he always wants me to read.

Getting emotional a little bit right now is because what I'm not reading is his actual words, but I think that's always why I choose this one or it chooses me because it's always his words. I'm only reading page two or three, so I'm not actually reading his words.

You're welcome to read his words if if that would serve you.

Yeah, we'll do this. So this is an email I got from my father. These are his exact words. It was Monday, June 21st.

ironically

the anniversary of my wedding actually just realized it in real time. So, miho, thank you so much for a great father's day. This means a lot to me. I have a tough time expressing myself and for that reason, I hardly ever do. I'm learning and your mama is the best teacher in the world. For the del rochas, expressing love is difficult.

We've been taught to be indifferent and tough. Unfortunately, it is also creating problems in my life because I am becoming the Charlie Brown man and people take advantage of those that are sensitive and caring. Anyway, thank you for a wonderful day.

I love you and your family tremendously. I look forward to next year. We will still enjoy a good massage. I hope to visit you guys this weekend. I want to see Maiella's last game and go over to UCLA to find some books.

I love you.

Buh-bye.

for a puro Mexicano and a man in general. I know how difficult it was for my father to write these words. I know how much he wants to struggle to press send on the computer. I know that he was trying to teach himself in real time how to love. Maybe it was the fact that he sent me that email the day after Father's Day, or maybe it was the fact that he sent the email on my wedding anniversary.

which happens to be on the summer solstice. Whatever the reason, my father was showing me how to reflect, how to process and how to let go. In those four paragraphs, my father expressed himself in a way that I knew was possible, but had rarely heard him articulate before. His awareness of how hard it was for him to express himself modeled for me the importance of self-reflection. His willingness to admit

that he had been taught to be indifferent and tough was an acknowledgement of a toxic culture that fed off his fear and his struggle to not be too vulnerable because he didn't want it to be taken advantage of for being too sensitive and caring reminded me how much more work we both have left to do.

As I read and reread his email multiple times, I was aware that I was fortunate to have a father who was willing to admit his struggles with accepting society's prevailing notion of manhood. Even though he was beginning to question the inherent pitfalls of being too hyper-masculine, he was also starting to recognize that being tough meant learning how to be vulnerable. He was teaching me how we can't confront patriarchy in isolation.

but must choose to be surrounded by people like my mother who keep us honest, accountable, and connected to one another. That's why I kept coming back to the lines. I have a tough time expressing myself, and for that reason, I hardly ever do. I am learning, and your mama is the best teacher in the world. In those two sentences, my father encapsulated the ultimate sacred lesson.

We can only heal if we choose to listen and learn from those who keep us honest. We can only grow if we are willing to let go of society's expectations of how men and women should act. We can only live our full and authentic lives if we learn how to truly love and accept our own selves.

Thank you so much. That passage just really stuck out in the book. There's so many parts, but that one really hit at the core of so many of your messages. And I want to thank you. What a sweet coincidence that it was on your wedding anniversary and that this in particular keeps coming up organically or energetically. Yeah.

I've read that so many times and every time it just hits me because, you know, I say in the book, my father loved me more than life itself, but it was so hard for him to say, love you. And so I've been reflecting on this belief that I have and that many indigenous folks have that when we heal, we heal not just for ourselves, but you we heal for our ancestors and we heal for our loved ones. still yet to be born.

And in such a beautiful way, like what I wanted to hear from my dad when I read that, I hear it because it's his word. So it's him speaking to me and it's him say, me how I love you. And so even at the age that I'm at, regardless of age, you always want that sense of love from from those around you. So thank you for gifting me that opportunity in the early morning.

That's wonderful and thank you for sharing it with us in your own words and in his own words. And speaking of his own words, my understanding is that when you set out to write a book, it was in his honor, in his words, and yet something pivoted that ended up with the book that we have today. So could you tell us a little bit about how that evolved?

Yeah, you know, my father was really, really instrumental in the Chicano movement. He dedicated his whole life to giving back. Was a community college professor for 41 years, was always actively involved in the civil rights movement in different campaigns. you know, so much of history, so much of history that we don't know is about like everyday folks that are just like.

sacrificing so much for what we have today. And I really wanted to write a book to honor his legacy. And so when he first passed, suddenly I listened to all these interviews he did. I interviewed his first roommates and different folks from his life. So I actually wrote a whole different book because that was like my gift to him. And when I got a great agent, shout out to Jan and nobody bought that book. And similar to like

you know, when I ask him what passage should I read, I feel like my father didn't want that book out because he wanted this book one. And so then I also, you know, I've been saying a lot that I wrote his book because I didn't have at the time, I guess, the capacity to really grieve his loss. So I was hiding behind his his words. And like when he first passed.

My mom was completely heartbroken. My brother died with his dying in a different way. And I just took on the role of planning everything, planning the funeral, contacting the family. I went into work mode and I feel like that's what men do. We just work. We don't have, we don't, we are not taught to just like pause and just grieve and just go through the emotion. And that's what I was doing. I was on auto autopilot, like plan funeral, contact people.

take care of my mother, like stay with her. Like, don't, I wasn't even worried about myself. I was worried so much about her. And then I just right, right away went into his book. Cause it allowed me to distance myself from my own pain. And I think that's what my dad wanted. Cause I know me how you have to like go through this and you know, all of our wisdom teachers and my mentors remind me that, but it's one thing to know and another thing to do.

So yeah, so the book that came out was when I started going to therapy, being very intentional about my own healing. And that's what came about from that whole process.

I love hearing about that evolution for each writer is so unique and I often find that the initial writing, you know, something unexpected. And so this is beautiful evolution. And you talk about the theme of self care versus collective care. You wrote, I don't believe in self care. I believe in collective care, collectivizing our care and thinking more about how we help each other. So what does collective care look like in your life today? And how has your understanding evolved through your healing journey?

Yeah, you know, I think, well in the West.

We're spoon fed this concept of self care so much, self help, self care. The thing that I've really, really have come to understand through this whole writing process is that healing is a communal journey. Like it's very difficult to heal in isolation. So even my own difficulty in expressing emotion or being okay to cry,

If you and I didn't have this conversation this morning, I wouldn't have the opportunity to read that passage to also release things that obviously need to be released, which is proving the point that my healing is connected to yours and vice versa that I was only able to go through that portal because I was in literal connection with you in that moment. And I've really, really, really have learned that healing is not a solo journey.

You have to obviously choose, but it's a community. the other thing that's very, very, the three things I keep saying is one is healing is a communal act. And the second is that so much of the medicine that we need, the West tries to like spoon feed us like opioids or like consumerism or whatever it is, but the medicine is actually really inside ourselves.

And the more that we get to know who we are, ancestrally, like we're all connected to some part of the land in this world. The more you figure out who you are, the more that you start to learn like, oh, there was a reason why my ancestors burnt Copal or sage. Oh, there was a reason why we went to a curandera. Oh, there was all these things. And it was because they were just helping us remember like who we are and what practices have we used to deal with the stressors of life.

And just the last thing is when I'm able to heal with others outside and the outdoors and nature, it just like accentuates so much the collective healing. And that's why I so firmly believe in collective care. And in this political moment in time more than ever that we really need each other for our own, not just survival, but for our own like.

moving to the next threshold of whatever this existence is that we're all a part of.

I love that you brought up the example of just this moment a few minutes ago where us having this conversation helped you kind of unearth something that needed to be unearthed today. It's not like you haven't heard that passage before you literally wrote it. So it's just that symbiotic relationship. And in a similar fashion, when I was reading your book, one thing that I really related to is the experience of growing up as a very notable minority and a very homogenous, you know,

School system, society, I used to, you know, for those who have listened, I used to live in Oregon for my formative years, middle school through college, and I definitely stuck out like a sore thumb. So did my brother. And I would argue that's one of the main reasons for the cause of his trauma, because you are othered at a level that it's intrinsically violent. So we hear these words about heal the self, heal the collective. Sometimes we don't exactly know what that means. It sounds more bumper sticker than anything else. It sounds really nice.

But what does that look like in practice? And so I just love that you pointed out this. So if somebody were to say, okay, I want to start healing myself, what would you tell them? Where do they begin, so to speak?

Yeah, I learned prior like 20 years ago, I've been very, very, very blessed to have incredible mentors in my life. And the misnomer is we think that mentors choose mentees, but it's actually the other way around. It's a mentee chooses the mentor. Oftentimes based on you see something in that person, whether it's like you have the same fire or passion for a particular thing.

Or maybe it's because that person went through a similar trial and tribulation that you're currently going through or went through. And so that framework really helped change the way of thought in my life because it empowered me to go out and choose folks. And not everyone will say yes. And it's not like I want to say, Hey, will you be my mentor? But I would go and like, just want to be around that. And it was specifically with a man in my life, it wasn't

I didn't ask for permission and it wasn't really talked about. just became because then the men, my mentors saw themselves in me and me and them. And then they would want, we like, we fed off each other. Perfect examples, know, Luis Rodriguez, the author of Always Running. Like I read his book before I met him and I was, was like, man, I wish I could meet that man. And he's the one that's taught me so many of these concepts.

This thing about mentorship, I think it's mentorship that was the least. This thing about like me, like my love of writing, my love of art, my love of culture, my love of like people organizing. That's literally, if you asked him, he would say the same thing. And the list goes on and on with other men in my life that I've chosen. So for me, I think that sense of agency and empowerment that you are, you're not, you have power in a situation, no matter how dark it is.

and to go out and find, find your tribe. But also there's so much wealth, like even the books, the books, books are teachers themselves. And I say books find you oftentimes more than you find the book. And that's like that inner knowing, that inner, that inner voice, which is your own ashe, like, hey, follow that path. So when someone asks me, I basically.

If they were asking me, then they might be asking me in their own way, Mike, will you mentor me? Which is ironic. It's not that I'm talking about it. But I think like, if we have that concept of, of community and we center that, then there's enough for all of us. We can hold more than we think we're capable of holding. If that makes sense.

Absolutely, and it begins with that curiosity, with following that curiosity that ignites within. And in the book you talk about, I mean, this is lessons of healing your father, right? So my question is like, why not your mother, right? What is it about the masculine, the father, the lineage through the father that needs to be healed that was so important to be expressed in the form of this book?

Yeah, my my first.

The of what a real man should be was my father and my grandfather, my abuelo, who was my father's father. My mom never knew her dad, so I only had one grandfather. And they had a very complicated relationship, because my father was raised by his grandfather in Mexico until he immigrated out here. So he didn't really get to meet his biological father for all intents and purposes until he moved to Boyle Heights, until he immigrated here.

And even then he didn't see him. was off doing his stuff. My father, someone and me were both mama's boys, you know, and, but I got to see how they're communicate, how they would only communicate. Oftentimes in silence, it was the things that was unsaid. And I focused so much on the men, because my mom was the opposite. My mom.

actually taught me how to love. She made it okay for me to be expressive. She made it okay if I needed to cry on my shoulder to cry. She made it okay for me to say, I'm a mama's boy and what? And so I think seeing how my father had such a difficulty asking for help because it's not socially acceptable for men to express any form of need.

That's what I know in my heart of hearts was one of the main factors of him dying prematurely because it was the weight of unexpressed emotion, the weight of patriarchy, the weight of just being able to be himself every day that literally had his physical body break down. mean, science proves this. That's why, you know, stress is one of the leading causes of so much death and so much, you know, different ways that we fill the void.

of our own loneliness and our own depression and our own feelings of not being worthy enough or good enough. And my father had an incredible group of friends, but I don't think he ever really talked about it like this way with his friends. And I'm fortunate that I do talk about this stuff with my friends.

And I think that's a generational thing that I think is slowly changing. Like people are always conversation about where we are in atmosphere and all this stuff, but touring the country, could say that the whole spectrum exists and we feed too much into one kind of harmful definition. That's obviously the dominant thing on the media, on the airwaves and everything else. There's a lot of beauty sprouting from the ground as well.

love that you touch on that because when I lived in the West Coast, is kind of that West Coast vibe, if you will, about being a little bit more, there's more openness in the overall dialogue. I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm not saying it doesn't have a lot of problems. I'm just saying there's a slightly, it's more open to these conversations. I have since moved to the state of Florida and especially in the context and the time that we're living in, a lot of these very harmful.

policies have been tested and initiated in the space where I live now and I have been exposed to the opposite thinking that very close minded, authoritarian, rigid, black and white type of thinking. So sometimes it's hard for me to find hope in feeling like, know, what change is happening? So

I love that you say that you've seen the sprouts of hope, you've seen the conversations taking place. So go a little bit deeper in what you're seeing and how does somebody keep hope alive in the context of the times that we're living in.

Well, I've been blessed since the end of January of this year. So it's been over six months that every other Thursday I help co-facilitate a men's circle for men who lost their homes in the Alta Dena Eaton fire. And these are men that, you know, society conditions a lot of us to believe that a real man protects his family, provides for his family. And really our worth is.

is defined by how much we produce in this capitalistic society. And these men lost their homes, some lost their jobs, because they burned down as well. So they're not able to produce. So all those things I just said, if that defines what a real man is, these men are not a real man. And they consistently show up every other Thursday.

And that's my point. I'm seeing more men show up. I'm seeing more men get to know who they are and go to therapy. I see more men like myself telling their sons, like, I love you, giving them hugs, like being emotionally expressive. And I see that, but it doesn't get talked about a lot.

And oftentimes what does get talked about is that, you know, that really harmful kind of real, like you said, black and white. But I know in the, in the silence of our own thoughts, that's not feeling us at the end of the day, you know, it's an old tactic that may work temporarily and like a short fix, but it never really, it never really gets to the core of who we are. And the,

I guess the prevailing notion of that real man that I'm talking about that can't ask for help and can't be emotionally expressive. It's a lie that every man will someday find out about. You know, for me, it was like kicking the ass when my dad died because I, you know, I knew it, but I was like, wow, do I want to die at 66? When my grandfather died at 104?

My grandfather for all intents and purposes lived a whole nother lifetime longer than his own son. So I see it in just like even that same passage I read on the top of this, I read a few days ago in Chicago, a 61 year old Puerto Rican man was given his life to like helping folks that have similar life experiences like him was absolutely weeping man.

like publicly around peers. And I was like, wow, that I wouldn't have seen that before. And so I do think also just on a spiritual tip, know this is a grief podcast, but we're actually entering into a like feminine time anyways. So a lot of these structures that are built on this like hyper masculine are gonna crumble. I mean, it will crumble if it's too much of either. And it's been.

It's bad. don't have the language to articulate this yet, but yeah, this is about a father and son relationship at the core. But it's really not about gender because gender is really a construct, just like race. It's really about energy. It's really about we all have both feminine and masculine energy. And how do we start to rip apart this binary? Because when I hear you speak, it's like this binary is really the root of the problem. It's not in either or it's never been either or. So, yeah, I see it.

And that's where I kind of like, people ask me, do I like touring so much? like, I miss my family. Sometimes they go with me, but I do get so much joy because I see this happening in rural areas and urban areas, red states, blue states, Midwest, East coast, West coast, like whatever it is. Again, those are all just concepts, you know.

Yes, and thank you for bringing that up. can honor that. We're talking about the masculine father-son relationship, but like you said, the masculine lives within each of us and so does the feminine. And for example, I am my father's, my parents' oldest and in so many ways I am his son emotionally and energetically and a lot of that trauma lives inside of my own nervous system. So even if you're a woman, it can also live within you. His unhealed self lives in me and it's something that I'm trying to also

So I love that this book touches on, know, it's not healing your father and you're done. It's healing through you, through your own work. We're not in control of other people the way that we think we are. And so much of it is going within and doing the work that maybe they didn't get to do for many reasons. Sometimes it's life circumstance. Like maybe if you take your grandfather's life, the ones that you got to meet and the ones that you didn't get to meet, or the one that you didn't get to meet.

Maybe if you look at their life and you juxtapose it with Mike de la Rocha, who's sitting across from you today on the screen, we could see the immense amount of healing that had, like I'm getting goosebumps, but like the immense amount of healing that has happened over time. My mother says, uh, like you arrived in the middle of the movie, there was something happening before you and there's something that's going to be happening after you.

And right now, a lot of it is healing and moving forward in the context of our own lived reality as we're experiencing it as myself and as yourself.

That's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. That what you just said is enough. I cannot speak for myself for myself to know like what I am living through or what this country is living through is not the end of the story. And every great story has to have a bottom because that's when we rise as phoenixes. So depending on how you look at it, to me, I'm

I feel truly blessed to be in live in this moment, even though it sounds awkward to say that because we are in a time of rebuilding and reimagining and honestly, like crumbling like the lies are crumbling the structures we thought were supposed to help support our own wellness never have. And now it's like clear, clearly obvious. And so, yeah, we are in the middle of a beautiful story that's unfolding.

So tell your mama thank you for those words.

Let me surprise I listen. Yeah. And one part that in your book I really liked was the example of the WWE event where you took your son, Neil, and you're holding him. started crying in the midst of what was like a hyper-masculine display. So what shifted for you in that moment?

It's a perfect question to follow up your last question because here I am in this performative sporting event that on the surface is very hyper masculine and on the surface is traditional gender roles. But if you look deeper, my favorite wrestler at least, Seth,

Freaking Rollins is his name. He walked onto the wrestling ring in full on pink dominatrix. And so in every dude, every person there was like, yeah, going crazy. And I'm like, you saw this same person in West Hollywood or wherever. You would be talking so much smack, but in this you feel safe. And then you have like, you know, it's...

I say in the book at its best, it's homoerotic at its best. Because you got practically naked men like wrestling and all over each other. And then it's actually socially acceptable after these men beat each other up for them to hug at the end and everyone blows up like all excited. And so, you know, the story is my son at the time, his favorite wrestler, we thought everybody thought he was going to win. I thought he was going to win. He thought he going to He loses.

And I'm all up and like all excited. Unbeknownst to me, I looked down and he's like literally bawling and he's in tears because his faith, he was so invested in the storyline and his favorite wrestler lost the match. And I held him and I let him cry. Didn't say stop crying like my dad would have said and looked over my shoulder and there was another man around my age doing the same thing about his son.

And again, like from the outside, you may look in and be like, no, that's toxic. That's this or whatever, but there's this slow shifting that's happening. And I'll always remember like locking eyes with that man, the other father, and we both just nodded. And that was enough for us to be like, we got each other, but like also like this shared validation, like we are doing the right thing. We're not saying, you know, rub dirt on it, man up.

or stop crying. These are things that I grew up with, that my father grew up with, my grandfather grew up with. And so that's where I feel like we're healing that cycle, that generational cycle. And that's why, again, break the binary. If I would went in there thinking it was just this, I would have missed all the nuanced and all the truth and all the reality of what that experience was.

That was a very powerful moment and thank you for sharing that. I've heard you say that it's not about breaking cycles, it's more about healing them. So what's the importance of that point of nuance and how has Mio taught you to embrace the healing part of it?

Yeah, I have to give credit to another mentor's father, Gregory Boyle. I was fortunate enough that he wrote a blurb for the book and in the blurb, he's the one that says that. He says, it's not about breaking, it's about healing. Because my belief system, again, is like I'm connected both behind, forward, everything in between. And I don't want to break my lineage in either circular direction. I want to help heal it.

and also breaking is still a very violent thing to break something. They say you have to go through the wound to heal. Well, why would I want to break that experience? Because that made me who I am as painful like both of us losing such profound people in our lives. It's the one of the deepest grease we've ever had, but who I am today is because of that loss. And if I got rid of that loss,

I wouldn't be the same, like I'd be someone different. Who knows? But my point is, that I'm healing and I'm healing like for myself and I'm healing from my father and my son. And so for me, the concept is really like, how do we get to a place where we find the strength and the tenderness and we're like, we're able to redefine strength as like being vulnerable enough to say, I don't know, or vulnerable enough to say, I need help or vulnerable enough to say, I'm sorry.

I like just basic, basic things, you And back to that story of that man, meant that was 61.

shared reading this book together allowed him to forgive himself, but also to ask for forgiveness for his father. And after like 30 plus years, that weight was lifted and like, he physically looked different. I know it sounds weird, but it was just like, just think about how much he was holding unexpressed. And that's the point. Like we can talk to our ancestors. It's not just on

It's every day, it's every moment. Like they're here alongside us. And again, if we know who we are, Ancestor, we'll know that we've always been in community with the unseen world and with spirits and everything else.

That's a powerful lesson. And speaking of connection, you talk about the healing power of nature from cacao medicine to rituals. You also talk about the concept of ubuntu, and I'm grouping these in for the sake of timing. could talk to you for so long about this, how did ubuntu, cacao, and nature, ancestral medicine, how do these all weave through your story and what have you learned about healing through cultural and communal frameworks?

The origin of us as a human species is Africa. all these concepts are literally from the motherland, the continent of Africa, which is the birth of humanity. And for me being of Mexican descent, it was really a mix of my father and my second father, Tim Nubeni, who's a black South African man who taught me the concept of Ubuntu. I him when I was 17 at UCLA and grabbed me by my left ear. I thought I knew everything. I knew nothing. I still am.

barely scratching the surface of what I think I know. But in Mexico, we have this concept of like in like GESH, which is like we're mirror reflections of each other. And so again, it's like when we're in sacred ceremony or circle, I always say, Ubuntu to me is manifested that when you're in a circle with someone, it's a real like literal metaphor for life.

Because if I'm in circle with it, even right now, if it was just you and I here, I can't see what's behind my back and you can't see what's behind your back, but I can and you can see what's behind me. So therefore, literally, I am dependent on you for my life, like literally. And so that's that kind of deep, deep sense of connection that part of my work is helping us remember our sacred connection and how we really do need each other.

and all these different masks and all these different identities, all this stuff at end of the day. Those are meant to really separate when at the end of the day, like spirit doesn't have flesh, spirit doesn't have border, spirit doesn't have any of this stuff. Spirit really just wants oneness, wants connection, wants belonging. And so these concepts are really how I try to live my life. Like, all right, well, if that's how I am, then I can't.

I can't just judge someone like Mr. Harry Belafonte, dear mentor, always reminded me you have to learn how to suspend your first judgment. And if you can do that in every space you go into, you might just see yourself in that space. But if you go in there with like already like some type of lens or judging, you're not going to get the full breadth of that experience or that lesson from that moment.

And these are all just indigenous African concepts, you know, and that's why I keep saying, like, you know, with my friends that are like European, I catch myself. have to remind myself, who are you, bro? you Scottish or Irish? Like, know who you are. And even that, that's not who you are. Like, who are the indigenous folks from that part of your land and what were their customs and how did they get along?

And then once you've realized that, then you're gonna go, hey, Matt, guess what? You know that we have similar cultural practices? Well, of course we do, bro. You're just on one side of the world and I'm here. Why would we not? You know, so that's why I'm a big believer in like knowledge itself, like know who you are. And then all these other things will start to melt away.

Beautiful. love that concept of if you're in communion with somebody, whether it's two people or a circle, your life literally depends on them because you could see what's behind them. So I'm looking out for you, you're looking out for me just by default, just by being in communion with each other. That's a beautiful concept and I'm going to take that with me from.

all the things that you mentioned in this conversation. And then you talk about the unseen and that connection that on a personal level can be ancestral, regardless of where you come from. As you mentioned, it's about looking back and where we come from. And also it's about that connection with spirit and with our loved ones. I know that you commune a lot with your father. You briefly touched on it in terms of, you know, how you showed up even just in the passage that we chose. And in the book, you mentioned that you associate the monarch butterfly with him as well. So...

What ways do you practice continued bonds with your father? What does that look like in practice today?

Yeah, in practice today when my father was alive.

I got to choose what I shared with them. I got to choose what I showed them. And now I'm a completely open book because my father sees everything, knows everything I'm doing. There is no hiding. There is no pretending. There's no performance. It's just raw us. So I talk to my dad daily, my spiritual telephone, if you will.

when I have a question or something I'll ask or I think and, you know, I don't know, maybe like nine times out of 10, like a butterfly will come or something will come, which is that inner knowing like, I'm like, okay, I'm supposed to go that way, or I'm supposed to be exactly where I am. And I've been keeping a journal, and maybe this is like the next book, but I've been keeping a journal of all these experiences I've been having on this tour. And it's been so profound.

how he shows up. Even one example I always like, well, there's so many examples, but I got to speak at the Barnes and Noble Inventora. And that was a place of my father every time I came home. That's what brought me some of the most joy. Cause he'd be like, hey, miho, you wanna go get a book? Of course. I was spending time with my dad. I'm in the city I love and I'm buying books or he's buying me a book.

It was that shared experience. That's how he was showing me, love you. And that's how I was saying, I love you more. And so to be able to speak in that same bookstore with his closest friends and my family was so emotional. And when I got there, there were seats, there was like a classroom setting, but I couldn't really see because we were all like on the same level.

And you know, kid born in Oxnard and something, now we're going to change this around. We can ask for forgiveness later. So I made it into a circle. put all the chairs in the circle and in the middle of a Barnes and Noble on a Sunday. And I was in conversation with the woman, the professor Ruby Sellett that took his, position at the Ventura Community College. We had this beautiful conversation. And at the end, a friend of my dad comes up and says,

Hey, look behind you. Literally behind me, there was a book on health from, and the title was, it was something like Healing Practices from the Mayo Clinic. And those that read my dad's book, his friends called him Mayo. And I was like, bro, this fool was literally behind me the whole time with his peers, his best friends, his wife, his son, like,

And that's just one of so many. And I think the more that we're open to, at least for me, that reality and that truth that our loved ones are always with us, the more that things like that will happen. And then I don't believe in coincidences. I believe in purpose. I believe like everything happens for a reason. And I believe like, wow, if that's kind of me journaling because the more I journal, like not only will I not forget, but then I almost feel like I'm calling more.

Like it's like a, it's always become a game that I'm talking out loud to you. Like I want to write more because I want you with me more. And I want to know that. And I want to be affirmed that you're always with me. So.

What a beautiful sign and yeah, his nickname was Meyos. can only, or Mario, that's such a powerful moment. I could imagine what it was like in that moment. We are strapped for time. I could talk to you forever. And for the listeners, not anybody watching, this is like the tip of the iceberg. He does so much work with his band and through his agency Revolve, which I will tag in the show notes. So for the sake of time, I'm going to speed this part up. And just please, if you're listening or watching and want to connect with Mike, go ahead and check the notes.

the note sections and you can get a copy of the book there as well. But as a final closing thought, this episode is going to air on in August, which to my understanding will be the 10th anniversary of your father's passing. So what would Mike today say to Mike 10 years ago, that version of you that was at the hospital just got the news.

Yeah, August 3rd, I was holding my dad's hand on the Monday before he passed when he went into surgery. And I was actually in the room holding his hand.

the last time I saw him. And I would just thank him because I think the last 10 years we have both finally learned how to say I love you to each other and not be ashamed. And ironically enough, I was holding his hand and it was wrinkled. And that same day I took pictures of him because I was talking to him. was like, you know, papa, like taking pictures so when you come home, you could see yourself and never be back here again.

And the one thing that we never found was his wedding ring. Couldn't find his wedding ring. And I like to believe it's cause we're still all the violin connected to each other. And so I would just want to say just thank him for walking alongside me in this whole path and this whole journey and ask him how much he's received. And hopefully it's as much as I've received from that journey.

Beautiful. Thank you, Mike, for your generosity of time, for your work, and for being you. Thank you.

Thank you.

and always remember, you are not alone.


People on this episode

Head Shot

Nina Rodriguez

Host
Head Shot

Mike de la Rocha

Guest