GRIEF AND LIGHT

Lifebooks.io: Matt Jacobson on losing his father, and the future of preserving memories and legacies

• Nina Rodriguez • Season 4 • Episode 66

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How can we ensure that the legacies of our loved ones are not forgotten?

In this episode, I speak with Matt Jacobson, a young entrepreneur whose father passed away unexpectedly, leaving a void in his life. He decided to create Lifebooks, a platform that allows families to collaborate on creating beautiful, high-quality legacy books that tell the stories of their loved ones.

Matt's story is one of resilience and hope. He is an inspiration to anyone who has lost a loved one. His work is helping to ensure that the legacies of those we love will never be forgotten.

This episode is for anyone who has lost a loved one or who wants to learn more about how to preserve family memories.

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Click here to watch on YouTube

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Takeaways:

  • The idea of encapsulating timeless memories with family is crucial.
  • Grief often brings isolation, but shared experiences can unite us.
  • Lifebooks was inspired by the desire to honor a loved one's legacy.
  • Creating a memorial book can be a therapeutic process.
  • Quality and durability in memorial books are essential for lasting memories.
  • The collaborative aspect of Lifebooks allows families to share diverse memories.
  • Grief can lead to profound insights about family and legacy.
  • The manufacturing process of Lifebooks ensures high-quality products.
  • Sharing memories can help heal the wounds of loss.
  • Honoring loved ones through storytelling keeps their essence alive. 
  • It's rewarding to revisit memories in a joyful manner.
  • Creating a family legacy can be a healing process.
  • The journey of building Lifebooks was filled with challenges and growth.
  • Finding purpose after loss is essential for healing.
  • Engaging in routines helps redefine what you love.
  • Being kind to yourself is crucial during difficult times.
  • Embracing life's challenges can lead to personal growth.
  • Honoring a loved one's legacy can take many forms.
  • Community support is vital in the grieving process.
  • Life is a beautiful journey, even amidst hardships.

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Join THE COMMUNITY by Grief and Light | A virtual home for grievers. Access support anytime, anywhere.

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Call to action:

  1. Watch / listen to this episode.
  2. Visit lifebooks.io to learn more about how you can create your own Lifebook.

Connect with Matt Jacobson:

  • lifebooks.io
  • @lifebooks.io
  • mattjacobson@lifebooks.io

Connect with Nina Rodriguez:


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Speaker 1 (00:00.236)
The idea of encapsulating something so timeless with your family, the warmth, the doing it with them, whereas just being by yourself, because of course, loss brings isolation, and we've all experienced those periods of isolation. And when there's a funeral service or memorial service, oftentimes that's the last time everyone's under the same roof again. And Life Hooks is a way to bring everyone under the same roof, and you can feel the sense of why we're doing this. You know, the purpose is for them.

And in turn, we've learned like it's for us as well. It's been a beautiful experience to go through.

You just lost your loved one. Now what? Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast where we explore this new reality through grief-colored lenses. Openly, authentically, I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started. How can we truly honor the legacies of those whom we've loved and lost? Welcome back to the Grief in Life podcast. My name is Nina Rodriguez. And today I am joined by Matt Jacobson, a California native.

who turned the profound loss of his father into a powerful mission to preserve memories and legacies. While balancing the demands of college and managing his family's business, discovered the depth of his father's sacrifices and was inspired to create Lifebooks, a platform that transforms family memories into beautifully crafted memorial books. You're in for a treat as we explore Matt's incredible journey through grief,

resilience and the lasting impact of keeping our loved ones memories alive. With that, I'd like to give a warm welcome to Matt. Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:40.546)
Thank you, Nina. Thank you for having me on and thank you for being a special professional partner in this as you helped me with the beta and participating in creating a book. Lifebooks has been an ongoing just endeavor of mine for about four and a half years working on this to make it come to fruition. The reason behind Lifebooks started all because of my dad. After he had passed, I was coming home at the time from Europe and

When I got the call to come home, I quickly had to take over the family business and endure what my dad had endured for decades, supporting the family, taking on all the responsibility. And it really wasn't, I had always respected and loved my dad, but really when I was in his shoes and feeling the pressures that weighed on him day after day, I began thinking about, you know,

the sacrifice his life had laid for the foundation of my family. And it kind of hit me when I was thinking of my grandparents and how I grew up not really knowing who they were as they passed before I was born. And I thought of my nephew and niece, or maybe like my future children, are they gonna grow up to really know my dad by just a few modest stories? This guy had sacrificed so much, had given so much to the family.

How could he be his life be dwindled to just a few modest stories and then in time just absent that thought of like the second death came heavy and I was driving home one night and I was thinking of my nephew niece specifically and I was just crying. It was just like a really tearful drive. Actually a day after I had maybe four customers in a row ask where's the old man because they had bought a mattress from him previously.

And you're asking yourself, do I tell them the truth? Do I lie? How do I make this sale? I have rent to pay. Am I going to start crying in front of this customer? This is days after my dad had passed. This is going on. And I was driving home that day. It was a heavy night and I was thinking like my dad would come home happy to hang out with the boys. You know, he would never bring work home. And here I am like every day is just harder than the next. Of course I'm in grief, but

Speaker 1 (04:04.888)
My dad was a single father raising, you know, three boys and my sister on his own. And he was just always stoic, peace of mind. And I don't want my nephew and niece to only know my dad by just a few modest stories, what his occupation was and, you know, his hobby, but really like who he was, how great of a man he was. So I kept telling myself, like, I want to write a book. I want to write a book. And I remember just saying this. I'll never forget this night. Like just saying, like, I'm going to write a book.

And then I doubted myself, as we often do in times of grief, like writing a book, like that's a huge, that's a tall task. How can I do this? And I thought of my brothers and like, I could get them to help me. Maybe they would join me in writing this. you know, initially I thought of lifebooks as a way to capture my dad's memory for my nephew and niece. And then selfishly I was like, well, I get to learn stories about my dad that I never knew before, but

In turn, in recency, I've thought, you know, life books are the great way so that I wish I could have told my dad, you're never going to be forgotten. You're always going to be captured in the family's history books. And it was really after that, you know, those whys, those purposeful statements, I thought the idea of creating this platform after doing research online, there was nothing like it out there for any multi-author creative book program, you know,

There and for the after death care, like there's legacy projects, but there's nothing that's timeless in that sense of the physical tangible. Like nothing's more timeless than a good book, a great book. And what better of a book than a book enriched by my dad's story, the foundation to the family that was. So I began working on this during my junior year of college while finishing, you know, taking over the mattress store and

Now you have a mortgage, have rent, have employees, have vendors, and then you also have like legal battles that you have to face with the state. You know, we got audited. It was just a very taxing year, but also I was trying to capture my dad's legacy and create this platform. and it, it's been so amazing because I was going to quit many times over as I couldn't find the correct manufacturing.

Speaker 1 (06:28.142)
most books, they're not going to last 100 years when they're printed online. Like a photo book from Shutterfly, not to call out Shutterfly, but they just do a cheap way of binding the pages with glues that, especially if you're in inclement weather, those pages are going to rip out and that book's going end up in a cardboard box. This is something that I wanted to hold and cherish and give it to my son, my daughter, my nephew, my niece, and for them to bestow it to the next generation.

from figuring out manufacturing. How could we do a section sound binding in a hard bound book at a reasonable price? How could we develop the book engine so that there's not a lot of scrapbooking for the family and they can focus on what's important, know, capturing their loved one's story to how to offer this to the vast audience that, you know, the club that no one wants to join, but everyone becomes a part of in that loss and working with like great

professionals like Nina and others that joined and helped me. What should the platform be like? So it's emotionally sensitive and it's curating and it's hand holding and you know, not restricting in terms of what you can and can't put in the book, but allowing everything and anything because this is your loved one's story, whether it's a poem or a recipe or a short story or just a timeless, you know, song that you had written for your loved one that you want to capture.

From the photos to the stories, everything creates a more meaningful and purposeful book. And in my experience in creating my dad's Nina and I talked about this, we shared. You know, that first story is difficult, but once you get started, it's like a good book, it's hard to put down, and there's this emotional cathartic relief. You may delete your first submission completely.

And that's okay, because it's an outpour of your heart. Once you open that door that you previously shut, but it's full of love and memories and all the heartfelt moments, you really start just engaging in your writing and it's so therapeutic. And you may think like, these memories were so long ago. How could I even begin to get started? As soon as you start, know, they just start, the details just start coming in.

Speaker 1 (08:51.744)
I told my uncle, because my brother had commissioned him to like, hey, write about this piece or write about that piece. I said, uncle, like, you can start with the title and you may not even write about that title. You may get steered off in a different way. I don't know if you felt that tune, you know, where you'd start with a title and then write about something completely different.

So I want to pause you here for a second because there was so much there and I just want to honor first things first. I'm deeply sorry for the loss of your father. Also, he sounds like a remarkable human being and has had such a huge impact obviously as your father in your life, but now in all of ours, his life has rippled out into in ways known and unknown into our lives through the work that you do through lifebooks.

through the outpouring of love that is evident in every part of this work. Since I met you, since I learned about Lifebooks, since I've seen the product, since I had the opportunity to be a beta tester and go through the platform and go through the motions of creating such a special gift for ourselves and for the legacy of our loved ones, you could tell that everything that you've done is out of pure love for your father and honoring the man.

he was and his legacy that continues to live on. So first of all, thank you so much. If you are any reflection of him, then we know we can feel how wonderful and amazing of a human he was, how person he is, was is. I like to think that our loved ones are so very present with us at every moment. So thank you first of all for sharing your story openly, for the work that you do and for actually taking action on this important project and the care that you put into it.

And one thing for the listeners and anybody watching, there are many ways to remember your loved one, but this one is different because you have to pour out of your memories intentionally, and yet you've done it so seamlessly. The platform makes it like you said, so the user, the person sharing the essence of their loved one for others to remember for generations, they can focus solely on putting thought to not paper, but

Speaker 2 (11:06.252)
to platform and eventually on paper, while you took care of all of the details to make it a very seamless experience. And also the quality. As of this recording, we have yet to receive the actual book, but I know that there is something with the binding. And if you could touch on that for anybody watching on YouTube, you could actually see what this book looks like if you have one handy and talk to us about the binding and the quality because it's all in the details.

The manufacturing of this book, it took 13 months to secure a print shop that would create the quality of book that I wanted. And as Nina said, the binding, when it comes to books, they'll glue pages together. That's easy. Anyone could go get a glued book with the binding being fastened just by, it's called PUR glue.

What happens is after years of reading and opening the pages and maybe someone opens it all the way, you hear pages pop, they fall out. If you're in inclement weather, it's going to affect the glue over time. And it wouldn't become something that I could really bestow within the family for generations. Now, the other form of printing is called section sewn. And I have the book right here for all the YouTube watches. comes in an enclosure box.

It opens up and keeps your keepsake safe. And the book is an eight and a half by 11 art bound. And section sewn is the most important part because they actually score the pages into sections and sew them together so that you can lay it flat and you can see the pages aren't just glued, but they're actually sewn together. That way they stay intact. And the page is actually rather thick. It's not some flimsy book. I want it.

make it so that it was like a coffee table book. One that would be picked up and read and shared and not hide away into a cardboard box over the years because you know it had withered and weird but one that's timeless and you can travel with and hold. And the problem with print manufacturing is that it's the section sound book is a quarter million dollar machine like where they do digital section sounds so they don't do one books.

Speaker 1 (13:24.046)
They do one custom book. They do, you know, 500 year books or 700 clip books. And those get put through the section sound machine. But it took 13 months and literally like relentless cold calling and NDAs and prototypes and samples. And I just believed in my art. There would be some print shop out there that would give me what I needed. And importantly, like I wanted to make sure that I printed in the States for privacy and

That's where our books are printed on the East Coast. You know, the owner of the print shop, very large shop, heard the idea from the sales guy that I originally reached out to, set up a meeting with me, because he understood the principle, the purpose behind this, and he believed in it. And he's designating for our books, and I's loved ones books, a Life Books Day. And that's where that machine gets used specifically for.

light books and they're going to be making our books and putting them for print without it being some extraordinarily expensive book because I was getting quotes from print shops of like 800 US, 1100 US, Canadian shop for 900 CAD and it was that's not something that I could offer to my family. That's not something 99 % of families can afford five copies out of that. Like that's crazy. But you understand like

when the book is going through a quarter million dollar machine and there's it's labor intensive, they're not going to just take one file and print out one book. They won't, they, they, it's not in their business practice to do it. So we're fortunate to partner with this print shop that's designating all of our books to a specific day where we go into print. And that's how we maintain the scale that allows us to offer the book at 200. That's how

It comes with the creative and then it doesn't cost anything for anyone else to join. And then $200 for all subsequent copies. And I wanted to price it like a yearbook, high school yearbook. Of course, a yearbook, they're printing a thousand copies. They're like, those schools are taking in a lot of money. You're getting one custom section sewn high end print and you're allowing your families to get it at a discounted rate. Cause you as the lead initiate that process and

Speaker 1 (15:48.438)
If you work with any of our professionals, you get even a further discount towards that process that I didn't want it to be out of reach for any income class, anybody of sorts, because I dealt with my dad's funeral expenses when he passed. Like all of a sudden I was studying abroad in Europe to using all the money I'd saved for two and a half years for my dad's funeral. Like we didn't know what to do. It was a, it's a hard time.

when the cornerstones leave the family. And financially, like, even if it isn't necessarily the breadwinner in the family, those other individuals have to go back to work with that heartache. Work doesn't become easier, it becomes harder. Financials become harder. And to want to do a legacy project that doesn't absolutely break the bank, like, I wanted to make sure flowers cost well over $200 to send to the girl.

This is a timeless token. should be very fairly priced and it should be an offer that anyone could grab. So the binding is the most important feature though. We could have done a much cheaper book, but I didn't feel like that really encompass how great of a man this was and what he deserved. I wanted him to be in a book that I could toss around, put in a bag, travel with, 30 years passed and it's still all intact.

as those books used to be, but a glee binding, it's gusting to break and then you have to buy another one. And it's the whole emotional loss of the actual book now because the pages are falling out. And like, how terrible would that be? Because now you're losing people's stories. And so it was very important to me, the manufacturing process.

Well, shout out to you. Give yourself so much credit for all of the faith you had that somebody out there was going to understand the magnitude of your vision. And shout out to the shop who actually understood it and is having a life book day for printing. That is wonderful and it's a testament to your hard work because for the listeners and anybody watching and kind of meeting Matt for the first time through this conversation, you know, you're a young person and I mean that admirably because

Speaker 2 (18:03.966)
You have done so much. want to put it a little bit in context in terms of the story again. You are in your junior year of college when all of this happens. This was very close to COVID if I'm not mistaken. It's like 2021 ish.

It was, now it was right March 2nd, 2020. I was in Europe, cities were shutting down and I had to fly home.

my goodness.

Speaker 2 (18:29.304)
When from a young student having one plan in life as one does, this happens, the world literally shuts down and now you have to face a completely different reality without your father and handling all of the business dealings that he had to deal with while you're going to school, while you're dealing with your grief. cannot highlight this enough. The fact that you created this company and you had this vision and you did all of this while grieving.

So maybe take us back there as much as you're comfortable with. I don't want to go into too many details if you don't want to. And just tap into that version of yourself and talk to us about what was that driving force that got you through those very difficult days.

It's like a new set of glasses. You're never going to see 2020 again, and it's going to take time for your eyes to adjust. And eventually they do. And you always long for that vision that you once had, but you'll never have it again. And you just have to accept the lenses that you now look through life. And those moments were extremely hard. I remember talking to my brother once about all this that was going on. I was finishing a degree in finance. I was dealing with

an audit by the state for the business for a time period where I wasn't involved in the business. was served to us three weeks after he passed a massive audit. And I had to, my dad was all paper old school. So I had to file thousands of receipts into a QuickBooks system and figure that all out. Meanwhile, I have exams, meanwhile, Lifebooks is in development. And I asked my brother, is it going to keep raining? Like, is it going to keep going? And he said success.

feels like staring into the abyss and chewing on broken glass. It's not easy. And it was a very dark image he pointed out. was like, that's exactly how it feels right now. Like don't light the light and everything hurts. Every day just remembering the purpose, the principle behind it. I'm creating something that's gonna help my family and other families capture their loved one's image.

Speaker 1 (20:37.402)
in a timeless manner that's gonna better their family and better the next generation. It is not a business, know, I love selling mattresses, sure, like that's great. But, you know, it bestows happiness for five to 10 years. This is something that's eternal. This is something that's within the family and principally so sound. I had thought of, my uncle gave me this analogy.

A family is like a beautiful canvas, a painting, and you continuing to paint the family's image in what it is. And you said, lifebooks is a way where you're going to continue that painting because otherwise once everything is forgotten and gone, you're restarting the canvas and painting it white again. And families have to pick up where they don't even know where they left off. And when you're painting a beautiful image of the family, you remember the hardship, you remember the strength, you remember the endurance.

the resilience, the peace of mind, the stoicism, everything that is within your loved one's strengths, whether it was your grandmother's strengths, something someone said no one thought she could tackle, or your cousins, or your aunts, or your uncles, and for me, my father. What that gives, how that bridges the gap between the next generation and mine, giving them peace of mind of where they came from, continuing that painting, fostering

the better image of the family that they come from, for it to be something where people want to live a better life because they know there's going to be stories written about them. It's planting the seed for the life that they live, that they want a life book or just any book. there's competitors in the field, this is the seed that's planted. That's we're going to live honorable lives because we're going to be honored within the family and it is not going to be forgotten. This token of like, give whatever you want because if everyone's going to forget you.

out with a life book, we'll remember. just reminding myself of the purpose and the why, but definitely dealt with the abyss and broken glass many times over and kept seeing mountains and mountains to climb and no light in sight. And it's just, know, you see patches of grass and you start to recognize, OK, there's there is another side of the hill. Being on the call with Nina before we got started talking about her experience like

Speaker 1 (23:01.304)
how much joy that brought to my heart that she felt what I felt. know, most people would start their company and do their own little mock run. I decided to do my dad's book with other professionals because I believed in what we were doing. I believed for hardly in what we were creating. I didn't understand how therapeutic it was going to become for all of us. You know, it wasn't just a book for my nephew and niece, but it was a book for me. It was a book that really brought and empowered me and

telling my dad's story. Those times where you think it's really hard, what's harder is absence, pure absence. And not really at home with me, like pure absence of my dad. That's not gonna happen. can, relented and relented over years of just trials because his absence was not gonna happen in my family. Now while I could write and share, I would have done it on my own if my family didn't participate. And I'm very thankful for their participations because I got all these stories.

I never knew it's

created something truly special that it benefiting so many of us. And I love that analogy about we get to create this canvas of who this person was and then that gets restarted generations later. That is so true. I don't know. There's a statistic that I think, you know, we're forgotten about three generations after we pass simply because these stories are only passed down so many times. And it's that whole concept of we die two deaths, the physical one and the day that

somebody speaks our name for the last time. So this is such a powerful way to keep our names through the generations in a very tangible way. And one thing that you said, it's also very healing. So even just going through the process of going through your files, your memories, your photos, recalling who this person was in your life, those memories that made you laugh, because in my case, my brothers...

Speaker 2 (24:56.45)
been gone for five years and about three months in the time that we were creating our life book. And there were some memories that were very fuzzy that I didn't realize were getting fuzzy. So as we're typing away at first, it's a little bit hard because you have to, you have to go there, right? And as a griever, that could be difficult even years later. But once you do, it's like you can't stop and then you're eating dinner and you're like, this other memory. And then you're talking to your cousin, friends, parents, whoever.

and they're sharing their side of the story. And one interesting thing that kept happening, for example, the story of the day I got engaged, everybody has a different perspective on that date. And my mom's like, well, do I share it if you're gonna share it? And I'm like, of course, because we are all remembering it differently. And you have this side of the story, I have this side of the story. And it was my day, but my brother was such a highlight of that day as well. So that's why we all recall it differently. And it was healing in...

ways we didn't expect to go back to these memories, to put them in a more tangible way so that we can all recall them collectively. For the listeners and anybody watching, the platform allows you to invite other family members or friends or whoever you want to invite to collaborate stories within the platform and those stories get printed into the book. So what was interesting is you assume, or I did, that we all remember things a certain way. And so it was very interesting to

see the stories pouring in from my uncle, from my grandfather, from my dad, my mom, and seeing the parts that they remembered or the details of a memory that they remembered that I had not been privy to because I didn't experience that particular moment with my brother, let's say. So seeing all that come together is absolutely magical. My mom, she actually said, I almost felt like I was spending time with him again. This was such a sacred and beautiful time and communion with.

his essence, his literal essence, and her pouring through her dozen boxes of all the photos she had of when he was little, something that she meant to do but couldn't find a way to approach it. We were talking about this before we recorded, but my mom wanted to do this for years since my brother's passing and she just couldn't figure out. She was afraid that if she went there, she wasn't going to be able to pull herself back out. And ironically, this gave her the opportunity.

Speaker 2 (27:16.014)
to go there in the most beautiful way. Once you get started, it is such a powerful way to honor and remember those loved ones. And even people who are here, like if you have a grandparent or a relative and you want to give them a very special gift while they're here, why not, you know, share these memories while they're alive? That's also another alternative, but thank you for what you've created. It truly, truly is special.

It means so much to me that it's been received how it has. My mom, it was so hard for her to get started as a widow. She, she would call me crying and, then towards the end of it, she, I told you Nina before that she calls me, can you open the platform back up? I got one more story I want to share. Please, please. We had to close it because we have to start rendering the book and get it ready for print. And I was like, no, there'll be a second volume. Don't worry. Like our family, there's as many volumes as we want.

We'll honor dad's story, but the change of heart, the change of, know, it's difficult to get started, but like how rewarding it is to go back to that place and account those memories in a joyful manner, you know, not into the point of, you know, you'll be doing something and I would text my brother because he doing like sayings that my dad used to have and he had 25 sayings, just like catchphrases. And I would be just doing something and I'd text him like, add this to the list.

And to have the community effort, it's been such an awesome experience and so fueling to hear how it's being received by others. I never would have imagined that it was going to become like this, but I'd only hoped and dreamed. it's, it's amounting to be just an amazing masterpiece in the family. And, for everyone that's in California, like me, prayers to anyone affected by the fires. My brother did say, you know, if they were

was a fire going on, I would grab a picture of my family, my dog, my dad's life book. And he said that to me before the fires had begun. And that's why I give my respects to those affected. But the thought that like this becomes a cherished heirloom, one that you would never want to lose, a piece in the family that brought peace to the family is just an amazing instrument.

Speaker 1 (29:33.39)
that continues to get played and read and learned from for generations to come. So it's become what I envisioned it to be. it's only going to amount to be better as in our launch, we're going to include the ability to add video and audio. Nina joins in the next volume and adds video and audio to just enhance her brother's book. the idea of

just encapsulating something so timeless with your family, the warmth, the doing it with them, whereas just being by yourself, because of course, like, springs isolation and, you know, we've all experienced those periods of isolation. And when there's a funeral service or memorial service, oftentimes that's the last time everyone's under the same roof again. And Lifebooks is a way to bring everyone under the same roof. And you can feel the sense of why we're doing this, you know, the

Purposes for them and in turn it we've learned like it's for us as well It's been a beautiful experience to go through so I'm now I'm super grateful for Any users like Nina who dealt with my constant updates to the platform and gearing ready for the launch and not soon We'll you know, we'll have our loved ones books in our hands and it's just gonna be an amazing day See my dad's I have it

Gone to my dad's plot site in several months since we got started and I was like, I'm gonna go back when they have your book. I'm gonna go back when I have your book. So I'm just like waiting for that day. I'm not driving home that day, already know.

No, I hope you don't. I hope you take it all in because it truly is going to be a full circle moment and I can only imagine how proud he would be of you because this is really no small feat. I believe you created, you worked with a developer to create the platform, so it's your proprietary platform. Am I correct in that?

Speaker 1 (31:33.186)
Yeah. So the first year and a half was the patent writing and that was very difficult. And meanwhile, we're working on manufacturing that took quite a long time. and then it was just the semiotics, the look, the design, the feel and everything I'd done. I've read every, if you have startup books to suggest, like reach out to me. Cause I read most, if not all design and startup books, I read a lot.

My background was finance, it wasn't in the startup space. And my partner who I originally partnered with, one of the heartaches I dealt with was this was a cousin of mine who was very brilliant. Unfortunately, he has a health condition. He was an amazing resource, but I was very young when I started Lifebooks and it was very hard. felt like almost a breakup where I had to depart away from him and he's brilliant. It was very hard.

because of just the rationale that you would bring to the table and continuing our partnership. But I knew that Lifebooks wasn't progressing and I was exploring, you know, going back into finance and having other ambitions and just stop, you know, with Lifebooks completely because I didn't think I'd be able to do it. then I came back from a trip where I visited my younger sister and I said, okay, I'm going on Upwork and I'm

interviewing coders. So we're going to give this another shot. And I met an amazing partner who now moved to California because we've become such close friends and we see each other weekly. We're on the phone all the time. our wives and I, go out to like the San Diego zoo and we go get ramen. haven't ironically, we've like had five bad ramen spots in a row. I don't know what our threshold is, but it must be high. And him and I have just in one year been able to create the beta.

began onboarding and we're going and gearing towards the launch within 12 months of working with them. And it's a lot because, you know, we're not some big VC backed firm with 10 developers behind us, but we have the fuel of, and the ambition of just young, you know, motivated, purposeful entrepreneurs who believe in the space that we're working in and believe in what we're creating in. now

Speaker 1 (33:55.47)
hearing the feedback from families just absolutely fires us up. And I know him, he goes to sleep at 5 a.m. He's on coder time. So he's probably asleep right now or just waking up rather. We usually have our afternoon call and I say, good morning. I even have said this like when you're writing your loved one's life book, you may find it difficult in the middle of the day because your left brain is so loud, but your right brain really gets to speak late at night. So you you use those late hours where your left brain starts to slow down, your right brain comes out.

the creativity thought and leave all the the the reason and logic of like why you can't do this behind because you can do it and you just get into those late hours of writing I don't know what hours did you write Nia did you write at any time was there specific designated writing times how do you

So it was funny because we did it through the holidays. And I say we, I went to my parents' house, so mom, dad, and myself, and I made them sit down. I said, have to meet this deadline. We have to at least get it started because like we've said before, it's a little bit difficult to get started because there's a part of us that doesn't want to go there or is a little bit afraid to go there. So we put the music. It was midday. They started writing, but...

Once you got going, you're absolutely right that sometimes it's right before you're going to go to bed that a story pops into your mind and you're like, let me take, know, I was taking notes on my iPhone and I was like, okay, let me just put these little highlights on, I'll deal with this tomorrow. And you know, I wake up in the middle of the night and be like, no, this other thing and this other thing, because it's so exciting. Going through the process feels like you're doing something so much bigger than yourself and something so full of meaning.

And that drives you, that like wakes you up, that pulls you out of bed, that makes you want to wake up the next day and just keep doing this. So absolutely, I can co-sign on that. And let me ask you, because your experience is as a brave son, as the student, the entrepreneur, the businessman handling the family business. So what advice would you give to somebody who's in your shoes, perhaps experienced a recent loss and they're navigating life responsibilities and grieving?

Speaker 2 (36:05.826)
What advice would you give to that person?

I think back to life is without meaning unless you have purpose. And when you find yourself in isolation, forgetting, you know, what was the purpose? Why am I doing anything that I'm doing? Why do I go to my job? Why do I go to the gym? Why am I eating healthy? I might get sick and pass away. Like there's all this doubt and self-talk. And when you begin to participate in the world again,

leaving the isolation and going back to work, going back to the gym, going back to doing things that you loved as you were in your best states. It reminds you of the purpose. It reminds you of the why. And I think it's really important to, you know, be kind to yourself. Don't take on too much and to try to develop routines and as another professional once told me, non-negotiables.

three non-negotiables, know, for me it's walking my dog, spending time with my wife. And my third one, I'm actually, I gotta instill that, but I'm being kind to myself. I'm keeping up with what I know and what keeps me true to my routines. finding yourself is a big part of loss. Like finding yourself again, because...

It's that lens that you're never, you're never going to go back to 2020. You're never going to be the joyful son again for your dad and proud of whatever, you know, he see it, you know, I have to find myself again. am I as, you know, a man? Who am I as a son? And what can I do to make him proud if he were here, if he wasn't here, that meaning, buying your why and your purpose, it becomes more apparent in

Speaker 1 (37:57.342)
You find your focus again in time, but it's sped up as you leave the isolation and engage in routines and try to continue to develop the things that you had once loved, because it'll show you what you love and don't love anymore. Your perception of what you enjoy and what you don't enjoy may totally change, but you're not going to learn what's changed unless you experience. And after dealing with a very consequential experience, it's hard to want to experience anything.

but it's part of life and that part of life of engaging with the world and participating, it's what redefines what your version of love is. And I think a lot of our love is really hindered and hardened by the taxing loss, but it's still there. It's still in our hearts and you just have to find it. And I just only implore people to just, you know, find routine, find your interest. And even if it's like,

Going back to playing with Legos, like I was playing with Legos with my nephew and niece because I like building things. Whatever. Have fun. Life is hard. Don't be hard on yourself. You know, be one person told me you talk to yourself more than you talk to anyone else. Be kind to yourself. It's difficult. Give yourself time, but also challenge yourself because

You are your greatest motivator in the sense of you're talking to yourself every day and you have to give yourself the right tools, right words. You got to remember and recount and reflect on the correct wisdoms and practices that put you in the best place when you were in a better place and you'll find your place in your feet. Again, it's just one step at a time. I always love physical like the physical exercise. That's very low barrier entry walking. I used to walk literally like 10 miles a night.

just to get my head to calm down. When you walk, you use both your right brain and left brain. So it brings ease to your mind. When you sometimes get caught in the left or caught in the right, walking is a really good low barrier entry sport that people discount because they say it doesn't burn a lot of calories. Look it up, it burns a lot of calories while.

Speaker 2 (40:11.822)
Well, those are incredibly wise words, Matt. And yes, to every single thing you said, I love how you talked about your non-negotiables. I call those anchors. Like what are the things that you are going to anchor yourself because everything feels so volatile. It's like you're wading in water and it feels very destabilizing. So what are those things? And I love that you said three, because we don't want to overwhelm ourselves with too many things on our to-do list. It's all, everything's overwhelming, especially in those early days. So.

Something as simple as playing with Legos, if that's what's going to anchor you to the moment, if that's what feels important, at some point, be an active participant in your life again. Whatever that means to you, whatever that looks like to you, who you are in relation to the person, and I want to include pet loss as well, because that's been coming up quite a bit. Our little furry companions that are family members for a lot of people can be just as significant of a loss as a human in some cases. But

your person, pet, or whatever loss you experience, who you are in relation to that is no longer. We can practice continued bonds. Actually, life books is a beautiful way to practice continued bonds. But at the same time, we have to recreate and get to know ourselves in a new way. And so being kind to ourselves, moving our body, anchoring ourselves is so important. I love the way you phrased everything and just wanted to

kind of underscore and highlight all of those aspects because that's very powerful. And if you're somebody that can kind of see yourself in Matt's story, then allow these words to be of support and comfort as you move forward in your own journey. And I wanted to ask you, Matt, besides life books, how do you keep your father's memory alive in your daily life nowadays?

I think outside of life books, I have the mattress store, of course, I've continued to grow and run. I think in terms of his spirit, he was a very much, he would always tell us, go down swinging, which in baseball, you get your strikes and what you don't want to go down is someone throwing a pitch and you're just looking at it pass by you. He would always tell us to go down swinging and have no shame.

Speaker 1 (42:26.964)
in regard to trying and going for things. Like, don't be ashamed if you fail. Don't be ashamed if that customer doesn't want a bed. Don't be ashamed if you experience some sort of negative reciprocation after you were putting yourself out there and they didn't reciprocate in the positive light. Don't feel that sense of pride. Go down swinging. Really go for it. And I think in my life,

Whenever I face, you know, a tough challenge, wall, I'm maybe scared to go for it, it's a really just go for it. Just go down swing, take, if you miss, you miss, but you'll never know if you didn't take the chance, you know, would you have made the shot? And rather than the sports analogies, you know, it just, it's a microcosm of life. If you don't take action, there's no movement. And it all starts with.

you as an individual because you're the only one that can control yourself and you can only control so much in your life. So understand the most control you have in life is yourself and not these extraordinary variables and the volatile life you have in controlling yourself in the manner that you approach life allows you to take it with a peace of mind. Like I gave it my best and what more could you want than my best?

Am I supposed to do more than my best? There is no more. And that peace of mind that you're just going for your best and you're kind to yourself because not every day you're gonna be at your best. And that's natural. I think my dad's words in that sense of just going for it really just continue to resonate in me today. And I remember many times I've been in the mattress store, customer walks out, leaves.

He runs outside, knocks on their window, drops the price by another $100, $200, rings them back in and closes the deal. I was like, you think like you're embarrassed. You're seeing this family like literally walk back in or just drive off. Like you're crazy. How many times I've seen him close a deal because he was shameless and like, no, like we're going to close this deal. They're not going to go to a mattress where I'm in. And he was teaching me right there in front of me like.

Speaker 1 (44:50.252)
Don't be embarrassed if they just drove off, they just drove off. But nine out of 10 people don't come back to the store when they say they're going to. So just go for it. And that's how he approached life. Plagued by the thoughts and worries of the external world, because he only knew like at the end of the day, have a lot of respect for yourself and for who you are. And others will respect you in turn. And don't be worried about the judgment or the lack of reciprocation or the harsh

realities that could come because you can only control what you can control and if the pitch gets thrown in the ground and no one could have hit it at least you swung at it. So that's that's that's how I take that.

go down swinging. I love that. I believe that when we share memories of our person, they kind of live on in other people's memory as well. So I will take that advice from your father into my life as well and see how next time I'm perhaps a little bit intimidated or afraid or, you know, whatever that monkey mind gets in the way of what we want to do sometimes that are afraid to, I'll just think of your father and his

wonderful advice and say, know what, just go down saying whatever it is, just go for it and let the rest work itself out. absolutely we miss a hundred percent of the shots we don't take. So may as well just take them. But your father sounds like a remarkable person that is absolutely missed. And I could see how so much beauty came out of your love for him and wanting to honor his legacy. So thank you for, for what you're doing. And I get a

good idea of who he was and his values. Is there something you want to live our listeners with of how you want him remembered in terms of his values or his belief system that maybe we didn't touch on before?

Speaker 1 (46:38.606)
As a single father running his own business and all the weight kind of on his shoulders, you know, the one thing that I always appreciated because when I took over the business, I find myself coming home, you know, I would lose sleep over literally how people are sleeping on the beds that I sold them. I would like the irony and I bring business home with me and my dad, I never knew.

what was going on at the shop. He always left it at the store and was very great at compartmentalizing, know, that's shop time, this is family time. And it's something I'm working on and getting better at. But that sort of poise, that ease of mind that he had, and I'm sure there was uncertainty, there was doubt, there was tough years. But for him as a leader to be that pillar, my respect for him absolutely grew.

When I go from being a student at San Diego State to running a mattress, so it's been in the community for two decades. And now I have all these families and all this. And it's like, my dad never came home saying like, oh, I had a rough day. Like I don't want to see you guys. And I got to remind myself of that. There's time with your loved ones. And then there's time in the workplace and they're completely separate. My respect for him in the shoes that he had.

by himself. Like I now have the help from my middle brother and I have some delivery. Like he was doing deliveries after work coming home late. He was doing the taxes. I have an accountant that helps me with bookkeeping. I built a team that helped me with my success. He did it all on his own. I don't know how. Just immense respect for the life he lived, the life he gave my brothers, my sister and I. What a testament to continue.

in this path of keeping the store afloat, keeping Lifebooks, the Vision, the Idea, and now coming to fruition. And it makes me very honored to steward this in the way that I have. And I couldn't have done it without his sage wisdom. There's that in my belief in God. I just, I'm very grateful for the life that I have, though it's been dealt.

Speaker 1 (49:01.314)
bad cards at times. I've been able to see dealers switch hands and deal new cards and I'm not stuck at the same table I used to be stuck at. It's a beautiful journey and I'd thank him for it all the way. Without him, none of this would happen.

He really sounds amazing and it sounds like he was very present in everything he did. So when he was in his business, he was present. And when he was with his family and time to be a father, he was very present as well. And he left you with, like you said, so much wisdom. And, you know, it's now your turn to walk the path and walk your own journey. But it sounds like he really left some clues as to which way to go. So that's such a beautiful gift in and of itself. And we honor.

him and his memory through these conversations, through lifebooks, and through all of the beautiful ripple effects that your work is having in people's lives. Before we close here, I want to invite you to share the website, how people can get a hold of you, how people can get their lifebook, and perhaps any last thoughts on whatever you want to touch on to consider the conversation complete.

Thank you, Nina. Thank you for having me. If anyone is considering creating a legacy project to honor their loved ones or with a loved one, you can go to lifebooks.io and sign up for the platform. If you're a professional and would like to offer this to your audience, you can also sign up through our professional sign up page that allows you to offer Lifebooks at a discount while sharing in the revenue from any books purchased.

by the families and ongoing books by the families because this is your audience and you've held their hands. We want to reciprocate in with the boots on the grounds, whether you're a grief counselor, a doula, a grief academy, grief therapist, there are many professionals out there that are holding the hands of family members and we want to be able to give you that legacy tool in your toolbox to offer. And if anyone wants to reach out to me directly, feel free to reach our contact page on our

Speaker 1 (51:05.57)
website or you can if you have a pen and paper my email is mattjacobson at lifebooks.io but currently I see all emails that are sent to the Lifebooks account so feel free to reach out to any form and direct it. If you have any ideas or would like to join or just have questions and would like to hop on a call I'm always happy to open time for anyone in need. That's the conversation with Nina. Thank you Nina for allowing me to share my dad's story and just

share life books and how much of an influence he had and impact he had on my life and what I've become. I absolutely think that you helped me articulate it in most elegant manner to really just show how much of a beautiful flower that could blossom from such a hard time with the strength and resilience and remembering purpose and why. That's how I believe our why, our purpose is how we get through everything. So.

Thank you everyone for listening and thank you Nina for having me on.

It has been an absolute honor, Matt. You are such a remarkable person creating something so special beyond just your immediate need to memorialize your own family. And this is going to be a beautiful way for hundreds of thousands of people to memorialize their loved ones as well. So I will link all the information in the show notes. Please get in touch with Matt. This is truly a special gift to give yourself and your family to remember for generations. And as a final question, closing thought.

What would Mad today say to Matt after your father passed?

Speaker 1 (52:41.066)
I would tell myself to keep looking forward and to know that you're gonna honor your dad in more than just one way and that your dad's life has a purpose and you're gonna carry that purpose forward. So to know that this was gonna be this thing that would incept life books that would touch the hearts of tens of thousands and plant the seed for how we honor our loved one in a new fashion.

It would give me some sense of pride and joy that this is going to be great. And it would definitely help me get out of that isolated bubble a bit faster. But no, that's a beautiful question.

Thank you so much. Beautifully stated. It has been an honor, Matt. Thank you.

engine enough.


People on this episode

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Nina Rodriguez

Host
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Matt Jacobson

Guest