The Grief Girlie: Shea Wingate on Compounded Grief, Myth Busting, and Making Room for Joy

Have you ever felt like you're grieving "wrong"? Is there a "right" way to grieve?

In this episode of the Grief and Light podcast, host Nina Rodriguez talks with licensed therapist and grief coach, Shea Wingate aka. "The Grief Girlie," about the many faces of grief. 

Shea shares her own experience of profound loss and compounded grief, offering insights and wisdom gained from navigating the deaths of her parents and sister in a two-year span, and her calling to work with grievers.

They address common myths surrounding grief, emphasizing the importance of self-compassion and validating individual experiences. 

This conversation offers a message of hope and practical strategies for finding support, processing emotions, and rediscovering joy after loss.   

***

Click here to watch on YouTube

***

Takeaways:

• Grief is not just about death; it encompasses various forms of loss.
• Moving on from grief does not mean forgetting the loved ones we lost.
• Grief can change our identity and how we view ourselves.
• The acute phase of grief can feel overwhelming and disorienting.
• Each loss has a unique 'tone and flavor,' affecting how we grieve.
• Grief work involves integrating loss into our lives, not just getting over it.
• Finding a grief-informed therapist can provide essential support.
• Social media can be a powerful tool for connecting with others in grief.
• Sharing personal stories of loss can help others feel less alone.
• Grief is a lifelong journey that evolves over time. 
• It's important to take grief one day at a time.
• Each loss is unique and affects one's identity.
• Positive experiences are essential for healing.
• Rest is a crucial part of processing grief.
• Talking about grief helps in its integration.
• Societal pressures can complicate the grieving process.
• There is no timeline for grief; it's a personal experience.
• Seeking help early can prevent overwhelming grief.
• Finding balance between grief and joy is vital.

***
Join THE COMMUNITY | A virtual home for grievers. Access support anytime, anywhere.
***

Connect with Shea Wingate:

• thegriefgirlie.com
• @thegriefgirlie

Connect with Nina Rodriguez:

• IG: @griefandlight
• Website: griefandlight.com
• 1:1 Grief Support
• Hire Nina as a guest speaker
• Subscribe to my newsletter
• View upcoming events
• Join Grief and Light: The Community

Disclaimer: griefandlight.com/safetyanddisclaimers

Buy me a Coffee

Chapters

• 0:00 Preview & Intro song
• 0:41 Understanding Grief
• 6:09 Shea's Story: Losing Her parents and sister
• 12:13 Grief work as a calling
• 17:48 Grief Therapy vs. Grief Coaching
• 19:40 The Grief Girlie and Social Media
• 22:20 I grieve for myself
• 26:50 Healing and growing around the loss
• 31:42 Busting grief myths
• 39:47 Being strong is working on your grief
• 42:16 Working with The Grief Girlie
• 44:26 Advice for grievers
• 46:23 Learning "language" of grief
• 47:40 Closing Thoughts

Transcript

I would encourage you to get support, have a space for you, for your grief, if you do need to go do some practical things in life and keep some stuff running. Yes, that's true. And you can have a spot for your grief. Being strong is working on your grief. It's going to get help. It's modeling that for the people that you love the most. It's not white-knuckling it and pretending you're okay.

You just lost your loved one. Now what? Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast where we explore this new reality through grief-colored lenses. Openly, authentically, I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started. Is there a right way to grieve? That's a question that echoes in the hearts of so many who have experienced the boss. If we haven't met, my name is Nina Rodriguez and I am your host.

And today we are delving into the myths and truths about navigating grief with our special guest, Shay Wingate, aka The Grief Girlie, a licensed therapist and grief coach dedicated to helping people navigate the complexities of grief. Shay understands firsthand the profound impact of loss having experienced the deaths of both of her parents and her sister in less than two years. She's passionate about debunking myths around grief work.

emphasizing that it's all about learning to live with loss, not simply getting over it. Shay, welcome to the Grief in Life podcast.

Hey, Nina, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:29.952)
It's an honor. I'm so excited to have you. met through the Get Griefy Collective and you've just been such an amazing light in the space for a while. First, I want to frame the conversation. There is a difference between moving on and moving forward. So can you break that down for us? Starting with what is grief? How do you define grief?

Yeah, grief is loss, some disappointment in life, whether that's somebody dying or a disappointment in life. Like I had a breakup, I didn't get into the school that I always dreamed of, or I have a chronic illness now that I'm having to deal with. So most of my work is grief as in death, loss of a loved one. I do want to acknowledge that people may be listening who are experiencing other kinds of grief.

living losses. And also when somebody dies, there's other living losses. can remember feeling so upset and grieving. My mom selling our home, my family home when my dad died. Of course it made sense for her to sell it. She couldn't keep managing it and her cancer at the same time. So it was just overwhelming for her. losing that home felt like a loss. It felt like I was losing a sense of security, a place I could always go to if I...

on my face in the world.

Gosh, I could absolutely resonate with that. I'm having a bit of anticipatory grief with that, with my grandparents' home. They lived there for about 40, 40 plus years, actually. So it's the one place in the world that I've always known. And they're, you know, almost in their 90s, not the same thing. So I want to honor that, you know, losing your parent at an earlier age is just layers on layers and layers on loss. But I could relate to the fact that even grieving the home where you grew up.

Speaker 1 (03:22.156)
and that stability in those memories. That's a side of grief that maybe we don't talk about enough.

Yeah, so I think sometimes people have this idea when they come to grief therapy that coming to grief therapy means they're trying to move on from the loss of their loved one or get over it. And that's not the work that I try to do with people because I don't believe we can move on and get over it like these losses.

are a part of our story and who we are and they have changed us. And so it's not about getting over it. It's about learning how to grow around your loss, live in your new normal and recognize that there is a life that you can live a beautiful life and finding meaning in that life and what you want to do. the kind of grief that people experience and I experienced too is that you're also grieving yourself, the version of you that you got to be.

in the before lost life. so navigating a new normal, not only are you trying to figure out your world and not the special person, but you're also trying to figure out, who am I now? Because this loss has changed me. What do I need now? What matters to me? What doesn't matter to me? So really, the Grief Work is about processing all of that and making space for your loss, but not about just you need to just get better and stop talking about this loss and never think about this person again.

Our sense of identity shifts tremendously after loss and especially after I can imagine after multiple losses so close together. We're going to delve into that but there's a sort of response like it's almost like a knee jerk response that I've heard from different people about. you're being negative when you say that like you're never going to get over your grief. So can you kind of deep dive into the nuance of why we say grief lasts a lifetime? What exactly does that mean?

Speaker 2 (05:21.1)
Yeah, I am going to carry my parents and my older sister Karen with me through my life. It doesn't mean that I'm not going to live my life. I'm going to live my life, but I'm integrating my grief into my life. I'm incorporating my grief and my new relationship with them, my new relationship with myself. It doesn't mean that I'm in that acute period of grief where grief is just in my face and I can't see anything but grief, but it's not like I

forget about them or I don't want to talk about them anymore. I don't feel sad sometimes. I think there's this pressure in our society that we have a limited amount of time to grieve and then after that you don't need to be sad anymore, need to work it out. But I have been sad at times, especially when big life things happen.

There's the sense of we lose them over and over again in those moments. And just so people get to know a little bit about your personal story, I would love to know about the loss of your mother, your father, and your sister, Karen, starting with if it serves you to say their name, and we'll honor them through these conversations, and then elaborate as much or as little as you would like.

I was studying to be a therapist when I was in my early 20s and I always wanted to be a therapist and I came across grief work and I was so interested in it. I thought it was just so different than other mental health work. You weren't solving a problem or fixing somebody who was like quote unquote something was broken. You were really witnessing what people were going through and sitting with them and companioning them. And so I really liked that work. And I remember saying, I want to be a grief therapist one day. Well, the universe was listening and

I got schooled in grief and I can laugh about it now, but it's just so interesting how that was something that was calling to me. And then a couple of years later, I'm a therapist. Of course, I'm working with grief because we all have grief. Everybody has grief and loss in their life. But I didn't have the lived experience. didn't understand, even though I was so interested in it, I didn't really understand how grief would land in your body and disrupt your life.

Speaker 2 (07:27.118)
you know, turn your world upside down. couldn't even imagine losing my parents and my older sister. It would just been so awful. I mean, was awful, but it was just something I was so even loves interested in grief work. was afraid of losing people. But then my dad, well, my mom got diagnosed with ovarian cancer and the very first day of her chemo treatment, my dad took her, came home and then he had a fire attack in her home that night and

I was there, one of my brothers was there, my mom, and it was a really intense experience trying to like wake him up, CPR, bribe him in the ambulance. Like my mom had just done her first chemotherapy treatment. We were all so worried about her and so scared. And I can remember people coming over to our house the day after my dad died and saying like, we're going to be there for you guys. And I had this moment where I thought they were talking about because my mom had cancer.

because it was so unreal that my dad had just died in front of us. It was just like, how is this happening to us? And so he died and then that was in March. And then the next January I was working, I got a text from my mom saying, call me during the day on a Thursday. I was like, my God, this isn't good. Cause she doesn't, you know, give me bad news like that. If she had some bad cancer news, she wouldn't have just said, call me in the middle of the day. So.

I called her and she said, Karen died. And it was just totally unexpected. Like, as anything, I was thinking my mom was dying, or she was dying, but I just, it was just out of left field, so unexpected. And so she died in her home and my brother-in-law found her the next morning. And it was just so upsetting for me because we had been there with my dad and that, even though it was horrible, it felt comforting to know that he wasn't alone. My sister wasn't alone. Her husband was.

in the house, but it just bothered me not knowing what happened and we had to wait for so long for the autopsy report. Even if you got the report and she died of fixation, like choking. But even then it's like, what really happened? Nobody was there to witness it. And so I learned with my sister, Karen Seth, that each grief has a different tone or a different flavor almost. The trauma and this intense experience with my dad.

Speaker 2 (09:50.624)
And then my sister, it's almost like this eerie experience. Like, how can this be happening? And that was in January. And then April, a couple of months later, my mom, I mean, losing her husband was one thing, but losing her daughter was like just so devastating for her. I remember coming home and seeing her when I came home after my sister died and walking in the door and thinking, mom has given up. Like she she's done. Like this is.

this is so much harder than losing her husband. It she had been through so much with the cancer and weren't getting good results with her treatment. So she decided to stop treatment and go on hospice. And then she died in April and she did hospice at home. It was during COVID. So me and my two brothers and my now husband were just around the clock helping her. And then we were there when she died and like,

It was just a different experience too, as we were expecting her to die. so like back to back to back, I had these three different experiences with loss, like losing different people who meant different things to me, but then the way they died, how I found out, being there, not being there. So I definitely got schooled and grieved. And I guess that is a long version of the story.

There is so much to unpack there and I'm thankful for your honesty and your openness about all of it. As I'm listening, my body's like reacting to the story, my heart's racing and everything. Just even picturing what you went through so close and something that you said when people said, we're going to be there for you, you didn't even associate that with the loss of your father because it was just shock and disbelief and trying to process.

what the heck just happened. It's so disorienting. And I'm so sorry. I would like to say their names if that would serve you. What is your mom's name, your dad's name, and obviously your sister Karen we know of.

Speaker 2 (11:47.31)
Heidi, Edison, and Karen, win games.

wonderful. And this is I believe we get to honor them through our stories and through sharing. They're more than the ways in which they passed, but we also share how their life impacted us and continue to impact us through our work and our stories. And I am always so curious about the differences of how loss impacts our lived experience and how it's processed in the moment. You had three physical losses and all the ripple effect of those losses.

And I also find it's curious that you actually got into grief work before any of this happens. Usually that order from what I've heard is reversed. Do you feel in some way there was just a knowingness in almost like spiritual or metaphysical way? Like there's a knowingness that maybe you just needed this information to be able to navigate what was coming unbeknownst to you.

Yeah, I think part of it, it just makes sense with my personality to just sit with people, companion. I just have a big capacity to listen to hard things. and that's why I wanted to be a therapist anyway. But I do think, you know, this was like my calling in life, something I was drawn to and

I never expected life to go this way. And it's so interesting because I do feel like the grief work that I knew about, the interventions I knew about in my head from school, I didn't even think about those when I was in the really early acute grief. You're just so in survival mode. And that's not something I fully grasp as a person who hadn't experienced that kind of loss. And I think my loss enriched the work, but I think my personality and I say like, this is what I meant to do. This is

Speaker 2 (13:36.0)
a calling. And also there was grief in our family that we never talked about, which I'm sure a lot of people can relate to. So it always felt like there was these ghosts around me and these people that we never spoke of, but there were like pictures of them. And so I think I was just always really curious about what happened to these people. Why don't we talk about them? Grief is just this kind of taboo in our society. And that was interesting to me.

Very interesting. And I know there's a difference between the grief studies and education as a professional and that added layer of the personal experience. So talk to us about why it's important to find somebody A, who is grief informed. What does that mean? And two, the benefit of working with somebody who's experienced a loss firsthand.

I think one of the most obvious benefits as a therapist is understanding that the person isn't necessarily having this mental health crisis. It can be a mental health crisis, but grief is just hard and ugly and difficult. And so just not pathologizing everything that doesn't need to be pathologized. So I think that is helpful for somebody who's looking for a

therapist and just speaking the language, just understanding the shorthand, I find that I do work with other clients who have concerns that aren't grief and they don't need me to understand panic attacks or like to have the lived experience of bipolar or depression. They're just here for help and information, but there's something just so personal about grief that it's immediately comforting for people.

to know my story, that's why I'm so open about it, and to know that I speak the language and I get where they're coming from, especially if they've had a bad experience with someone who, a therapist, a provider, who didn't understand them. So it's different in that regard with other mental health concerns that people just really wanna know you get it.

Speaker 1 (15:42.37)
Definitely. For example, when my parents went to the therapist after my brother's passing, the one moment that has been marked in their memory as a moment of this person really understood and they got it was when this therapist kind of broke the code, if you will, how the roles are supposed to be separated. And she just started crying because the human side of her felt so bad. they don't know if she had a personal tie to what happened. Maybe she was actually like,

relating more than they realized. But she even gave them a hug and they said that was the most helpful thing. Absolutely did. And it was just that humanity of no, we're not crazy for feeling this way. And yes, this is as bad as it is. And that human connection was more healing in ways than maybe that therapist even realized. No, I know there's boundaries that you're taught not to cross. So how do you navigate that terrain, that kind of gray area with your clients?

I don't talk about anything other than like my Greece. Sometimes people don't know my story and they'll ask me. I find this true for a lot of people who come to me. They've been referred and maybe they haven't personally heard my story. They'll ask me if I've ever lost anyone. So I'll just tell them. But I would say most people already know and that's just comforting for them. Sometimes people ask me like, did this happen to you? Did you feel this way? And I'll just be honest.

Yes, what you're saying makes sense. I had somebody today ask me if I felt the same way that she did. And we just processed how the manner of her daughter dying was different than anything I experienced. So she had a different outcome. But just like putting it back to the client or just being honest and simply answering. They want to hear more about my story or listen to me in depth. Like there's a whole bunch of it on my Instagram.

And people are just so ready to talk because no one in their life is talking to them or asking questions or giving that space. So I find that they just want to know that I get it. And that's usually enough.

Speaker 1 (17:48.024)
Thank you for that. And I said client, I meant patient. But you do work as a licensed therapist in your state of Tennessee, believe. because of the limitations in the United States with being able to practice only within certain areas, you've also done grief coaching. So for somebody who's maybe new to this, what is the difference between therapy from a licensed therapist and grief coaching?

And what is your approach to each one? How do they differ?

Yeah, so yeah, I do do group coaching for people in other states and it is different. We're not necessarily like more giving information. We're providing, you know, feedback to them about grief, what to expect. There's just like not a lot of education. People really don't know what to expect. They feel like they're going crazy. so just some education is a lot of what I do with coaching normalizing what I do with just listening, providing space. Whereas if somebody is coming to me for like

they maybe have another mental health concern going on or like their grief is exacerbated in old eating disorders, something like that. We're doing more, we're kind of being in the grief some and then we're being in the other mental health concerns and doing interventions for those different things. So if somebody were to come to me for grief coaching and have some other mental health stuff going on, I refer them to a provider who could help them deal with that.

I think it's hard because sometimes people are in therapy in other states and they're trying to work on their grief with that therapist who's maybe not grief informed and they have other stuff going on that their therapist is great at helping them with. They just want to talk to somebody who understands green youth and so yeah, that's just my role with them.

Speaker 1 (19:40.226)
Thank you. What made you become the grief girly? Anybody's listening or watching, if you go at the grief girly on social media, you will find her account. She has amazing content and information, which is part of what you said. There's such little discourse. is changing. think social media is getting normalized, but you provide so much value in your social media platform to educate.

audiences wherever they get your information about grief. So when did that side start and what role has social media played in all of this?

So when did I start the Grief early? All the years run together, 2022 or three, just because I wanted to provide like grief information like you said, I just was thinking about it all the time, frustrated about it, wanting to provide information and wanting to connect with other people that were doing the same thing and see what was out there. I remember following the hashtag grief after my dad died on social media because I was feeling sick of seeing everyone's happy life.

I like, need to scroll and zone out, but I cannot deal. So that was really helpful for me. It was so surprising how helpful it was for me. Definitely not something I learned in therapy school, but it was so helpful and I wanted to provide that for other people. I felt like I brought something unique to the table. I'm a therapist, but also I have these three losses. I was in my 20s when I lost these people. Like you said, the intro was so...

quick less than two years so I thought maybe other people could relate to my story and hearing other people's helped me so much that I knew it would be helpful for people and especially young people losing losing both of their parents. It seems like nobody my age could relate to me. I found that I was relating to my friends parents a lot more and not not my peers but I knew that there

Speaker 2 (21:41.374)
happened to other people or other people out there. So I just wanted to be like, hey, look, there's other people that experience this, you're not alone.

definitely on social media has been such a beacon of light for so many of us because thanks to the hashtags and the algorithms helping us connect, there's a greater conversation happening and it is extremely helpful, like you said earlier, to have the language. Grief in a way is a language and learning it is so incredibly helpful because you realize your experience is normal. Other people have been there and there's ways to move forward through it and, and, and, and, right?

I always say grief is living in the end. I want to go back to one thing about your mom that you said. Life could be so surprising that she was the one with the terminal diagnosis and yet, you know, your dad and your sister and all these other surprises that happened along the way that we just could not have seen. So when somebody gets a terminal diagnosis, it feels like your life is over and yet what loss has taught so many of us, it's so cliche, but you really just don't know.

Like your days could be counted. You just don't even know that we aim for a full life. We aim for that typical like movie, you know, you die at old age with your family around you, like all these things, but gosh, for so many people that doesn't really happen. So I read this quote, shout out to Janet from the Mother Love Project. It's a blog that you shared about the experience of losing your mother. And I'm going to read it says, I remember seeing her for the first time after my sister's death. And I knew something had shifted for my mom.

Cancer couldn't scare her. Losing her husband didn't stop her. Living alone was possible, but losing a child seemed like a fatal blow.

Speaker 2 (23:26.35)
I can't believe I wrote that. It makes me want to cry. No, it's good. Actually, I'm not sorry. My crying on your flat has. And that's like, when you hear it, you're just so, it's so powerful. I mean, I could write that. I could talk about it all day, but hearing it back, I agree for myself, which is okay. I'm so allowed to do that.

And I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (23:53.632)
Absolutely. And thank you for saying that because when I read it, I was grieving for you. My heart broke for you. I was seeing this moment through your lens as a daughter, as a bereaved daughter, having to experience all of this. I lost my only sibling and that was shocking enough. That sent ripples enough. I can imagine, although it's very painful to do so, to lose family members so close in everything, in proximity, in relationship, in time, and all the things.

So my heart went out to you and I love that you say I agree for myself because I want to also normalize that if we don't validate it for ourselves, we can't validate it for others. And so much of this process is validating it for ourselves. Talk to us about that moment that Shay was going through. Almost as an observer seeing all of this unfold in front of her and what was that like and how you, I don't know if regained your footing is the right word, but how you navigated that to the person that is across from me today.

Well, a lot of it is simpler. I mean, it's so interesting, like what you said, my mom was the one with the stage four cancer that wasn't responding to chemotherapy. And then here she is dealing with all of this loss and having to pick up all the pieces. So it wasn't expected at all. And how did I get here? One day at a time. Seriously, I felt my feelings a lot.

Well, the advice I would give to people is just try to take it one day at a time. Take it, take it slow. I felt like I was in a hurry to like to get somewhere else or finish grief or get better, whatever. But it there wasn't like that. I just lost so much. So I needed to just like take it slowly. But yeah, losing my mom was just the hardest. It's so interesting how each loss is different and the

person that you lose is different, what they represent in your life. And I don't feel bad saying that was my mom was artists, like I missed her the most. That was the hardest loss. And I think just like losing a parent or a sibling, like you lose a sense of yourself, your stability, your story. And it's like a part of my history was gone with these people. And so I had to agree that every time I realized it. I remember

Speaker 2 (26:16.714)
One time I was at the doctor and they asked me a question and I didn't know the answer and anyone who would have known the answer was dead. You know, like my brother's own metal, my medical history, our family's medical history. And so just allowing myself to be sad about that and cry about that and and feel those feelings. And one thing I now looking back, I wish I would have done is allow myself to have positive experiences because I was

just so in the grief because I'm good at being in deep dark emotions. And so it was so easy for me to be in that world. As I've healed and grown around the loss, I've realized how important positive experiences are in helping me and having that balance of like, yes, I can cry and be upset. And then what's the positive experience that I can have to nourish and fuel myself and feed this life, this new normal.

And I think one of the reasons I didn't allow myself to have positive experiences is because it felt wrong, it felt bad. And I didn't have the energy. Like what I would have thought would be fun and positive, I couldn't physically do. So redefining what's fun and nice and positive. I remember on my dad's death anniversary, that's why my friend, I wanted to get together and do something, because I wanted to mark the day. And she said, let's go whitewater rafting and camping.

I just thought to myself, cannot go whitewater rafting. I can't get in this flimsy boat and almost tie myself and I can't go camping. I'm too tired. So I feel like, okay, I just can't do anything fun. I'm not able to go and do fun things. Then I realized, okay, having a lazy afternoon with some tea and a favorite show, that's a positive experience that I'm allowed to have. I'm allowed to feel good.

Thank you for bringing that up. There's days where you are a wet pile of towels on the floor. That's okay. There are days specifically to be just, you know, sinking into your couch for 24 hours or however long you need. And there are days when you feel that joy and it's key to give yourself permission to do both. It's okay to allow yourself to, to veg out and rest and let your body relax. And it's okay to also feel joyous. I don't know if you maybe recall the moment or just

Speaker 1 (28:40.906)
a general time when you started to feel joy again? What was that like for you?

you. And it's interesting, it was a while, it was a while when I started saying I was feeling I know that I was feeling it. And I can look at pictures, but that time was such a blur. A couple of years after losing my family members was such a blur. I remember saying, Oh, I'm surprised I was able to do that because I would go and do things out in the world embrace myself and just

No, I couldn't get through the whole event or whatever it was. And then there was times where I would get through it and not be exhausted. And I just saying, I was able to get through that or I'm unable to have energy or I'm like feeling happy. I was like suspicious about it. I think really that the energy was a big deal for me.

like being surprised, was so interesting, I surprised I was able to do a whole interaction or come home and have something positive to say. Because when you're grieving, everything just feels wrong, no one understands you, everything sucks, you're exhausted. Like everything is just bad. And that's okay for that to be true. And then as I heal, as I process my grief and, you know, went on my healing journey, I naturally was just able to

have more capacity. feel like my window of tolerance expanded. have more capacity. I didn't have to brace myself for regular things in life. I was able to be curious again. That was a big surprise for me. I thought I would probably never be curious again and never want to do anything. after we... That's okay. So my mom died in April 2020. And then in September that year,

Speaker 2 (30:33.518)
My husband and moved to Nashville. were living in Cincinnati. And when we moved, I left my job and we came here for his job. So I didn't take a job right away. I just gave myself some time to look for a job. And I don't know if I could have looked for a job and worked a job as a therapist and graced. So I just had to just get here first. And then I remember coming downstairs one day and saying to my husband, so I think I want to open a private practice. He was like, are you sure?

And I was just like, yeah, I'm gonna do it. I was just like, I just knew I would know when I was feeling, feeling better. And that was a moment where I just remember feeling better. And I'm sure he thought, oh my gosh, there's no way you can help other people right now.

Well, I'm glad you did. know you've so many people and, you know, our lived experience does add a layer of understanding that we otherwise wouldn't have. I'm sorry you have it because of what that implies and entails. And I'm also glad that you get to help other people through such deep knowing and understanding and professionally and personally. Let's talk some grief myths because, they abound.

They're part of the reason why grief can feel so difficult to move through. There's all these expectations. Let me start with the myth of time, like how long you're supposed to grieve, when is it supposed to end? And in your personal experience, did you ever feel rushed to stop grieving? know, like where was that coming from and how did you navigate that? And then you can also from there mention like any other grief myths, maybe like a top three or five that come up quite a bit.

Yeah, I definitely felt rushed and I was the one rushing myself. I'm sure I got the idea from society and people when I look back and think about it, nobody was rushing me. think I was really pressuring myself. that leads me into this myth that I think I struggle with the most is I need to get back to normal. Like I have to stop being.

Speaker 2 (32:39.096)
this strange person I need to get back to normal, but there's no going back to normal. I'm forever changed. And what does that even mean? I'm going to act like my life didn't just get turned upside down and know what it did and acknowledging that. It's so interesting how we can put that pressure on ourselves. I understand and I know people have others in their life who pressure them from work, from relationships. Like sometimes I was even interpreting it as pressure, but it wasn't.

when people would try to give me like a positive spin on something. I thought they were pressuring me, but now in this like clear headspace, I know that they just didn't know what to say or they were trying to be helpful and encouraging. I think that pressure was coming from myself and misinterpreting things sometimes.

want to deep dive a little bit into that. Can you give an example of something somebody said that made you feel pressured? Because I can relate to that so much. And in hindsight, in the moment, no. But in hindsight, I can say, gosh, a lot of that was me misunderstanding, like not allowing myself to take the time that I needed, feeling like I had to be productive ASAP. So what was that that brought it up for you?

Well, I think these ideas came from people who didn't really know me that well. So I think that was like kind of a clue that maybe it wasn't like I needed to take advice from them. One person asked me how I was doing and I had this moment of thinking before texting them back and this moment of should I say I'm good and pretend or should I say I'm terrible, which is the truth. And I went with, of course I went with I'm terrible and telling the truth of my

feelings and that person texts back like something like, you know, try to look on the bright side, be more positive. And I just felt so misunderstood in that moment and so upset and it almost felt like you need to just get better. You need to just be okay. But that person really know me. They probably didn't know what to say. And I just learned they're not my person to go to for Greece. And I think another time I

Speaker 2 (34:50.86)
Like I said, when we moved to Nashville, I didn't have a job right away. And I was talking to somebody about it, like, what am going to do? Like, where am I going to work? And he said, well, you'll figure it out soon. Which is probably like, he wasn't saying anything. But in my mind, I heard I need to figure it out now.

Thank you for saying that because it's an operating mechanism that's so subtle, but you compound with every interaction that we have. And then we have this almost like anxiety about, gosh, I'm not doing enough. I need to get over this. I da da da da, know, at least I did. Let's speak for myself. At night, sometimes the thoughts swirl around and you're just thinking, am I taking too long? Am I really indulging in sorrow? And

Maybe, maybe not. I just know that with the ebb and flow of grief, the waves, if you will, there are days for certain thing to take place. Just honor your truth. That being said, what is the line that you need to watch out for as a griever where maybe the grief is turning into something else?

That's a really good question. would say that is individual basis. That's why it's so important to work with a great professional. And I can give you some general things, but with the caveat that everyone's on their own journey. Technically, the DSM, the book that therapists use to diagnose people, it's a year, which I don't believe at all. I think that's crazy, a year. You're just trying to survey.

started at the year-end.

Speaker 2 (36:24.91)
And you know your name for a whole year. So that's crazy. So anyone who's heard that, you can listen to a therapist saying that I think that's really soon. I know they're saying why they do it for diagnosing insurance purposes, whatever, but that is too soon for me. When your life is like more grief than anything else, and the grief has pulled down all the things in your life, like grief has caused you to lose your job, like

have horrible relationships, like be cut off from people, doing things to help that are actually hurting you, like drinking or risky behaviors. You're not able to function in your life. I think that's a sign that grief is driving the bus. I've heard another grief therapist say, when she gets asked, when should I get help for grief? Her answer is, when you first think that you need help. And that could be...

The day somebody dies, you just want to start getting help and help could be, reading blogs online, right? Or I don't want anyone to get to the point where it is destroying their life because it's become so intense for them. You don't have to get to a point of everything crashing and burning around you to get help. As soon as you think, should I get help? Yes. The answer is yes. The answer is yes. Go get help.

but I could see times in my grief journey where I was choosing grief over everything else and because it was so alluring to me, like I was closer to my parents and my sister when I was just like knocked out with grief. And so I think my husband, who's also a therapist, told me, you can't keep doing this, it's hurting you. But I just wanted to say that to say that I'm...

I didn't do it perfectly all the time. It's so tempting to want to be with the greenies. For some people, some people don't want be with it at all, but I understand feeling those intense feelings in a way feels good. It makes you feel closer to them and it sometimes can feel wrong to feel happy or to feel less intense.

Speaker 1 (38:35.128)
I love that your husband is also there. Stan, he reflected that to you. I love that you said whenever you feel like you need it or whenever it pops into your mind. think that's a great framework because although there is no quote unquote right or wrong way to grieve, there are certain behaviors to watch out for. There's resources that are becoming available and are available. Just go with the one that resonates.

So what's something that's very insidious in the process of grief that you've worked with, whether it's a thought or behavior or perception that keeps coming up with the people that you work with and how do we work around that?

Yeah, there's these shoulds. There should be this grief. What is it? The five stages? Yeah, I'm sure you've probably debunked that on your podcast before, but I should be at this stage or I should be feeling this way or even other people should be acting this way. I that is a big one that gets people stuck. And one of those is I should be strong for my family.

can get in the way of people taking care of themselves. If you're thinking that or hearing yourself say that, I would encourage you to get support, have a space for you, for your grief, if you do need to go do some practical things in life and keep some stuff running. Yes, that's true. And you can have a spot for your grief. Being strong is working on your grief. It's going to get help.

connected. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:08.736)
modeling that for the people that you love the most. It's not white-knuckling it and pretending you're okay.

What would you say to the people that do white-knuckle, the ones that have for one reason or another learned that they have to shove their feelings down your carry-on and move forward and we don't have time for our feelings? What would you say to somebody that thinks that way?

I know you're scared. It is scary. And when you're four months old, something develops in you to help you regulate your system. And that allows you to cry it out until you fall asleep as a four month old. And you didn't create that regulation system. It's a part of who you are. I know it's scary. And you have this regulation system that's going to help you do this. It's not going to overtake you completely.

You're either gonna get bored, you're gonna be tired, you're have something else to go to where you're gonna fall asleep. I think a lot of times people wind up like, because if I start crying, I may never stop. I know that's how it feels. And you have this innate system in you that's gonna take care of you. Humans are so good at surviving.

Beautifully stated. I absolutely love that and firmly believe we're divinely designed with certain mechanisms and that's one of them. So thank you so much for bringing that up. Let me ask you what's one of the most rewarding aspects of your work and the people that you get to work with.

Speaker 2 (41:33.05)
my gosh, I love seeing people find energy or hope again, or start dating again, or, you know, just open up to different things in their lives. Take a risk, go try something you always wanted to do. It just is a sign that they're there, they're feeling better. Quit that job that they've always hated. Grief, when you work on your grief and you grow on your loss, it can give you so much bravery. And I love seeing that. It's so exciting.

There's so much strength and vulnerability and in feeling our feelings, we're just kind of clunky about it. We're not sure how to do it. It's almost like these toddlers learning how to talk, how to walk, excuse me. And you know, the work that you do is helping them understand. And what offerings do you have? How can people work with you both in the capacity of the licensed therapist and as a coach? And do you have any offerings coming up?

We're recording this in January, so for perspective, it'll be out in about a month or so, this episode. So anything coming up in, let's say, Q1 of 2025.

Yeah, so if anybody wants to interact with me for free, I've been on a lot of podcasts like this, my Instagram, like Nina said, and also I have this thing called the grief club, which is a free online platform where I talk about a different topic each month and dive deeper than the 90 seconds I have on Instagram to go over a topic. And another way to work with me is I have a grief myths course that's $30 for people to go at their own pace or go with another

grief professional or you know, it's a place for them to journal, reflect, to learn about grief. And then if they want to work with me one on one, that's an option too. And all of that can be found just by messaging me on Instagram or emailing me through my website, which is the griefearly.com. No new big exciting things coming right now to be continued on my Follow My Platform for that.

Speaker 1 (43:30.562)
Well, all that sounds big and exciting to me and to, you know, the people that need it because at the end of the day, I remember the version of me five and change years ago, desperately seeking resources. And what I was finding was just not clicking. Unfortunately, a lot of the grief, especially at the time, a lot of the grief information was for somebody in their late age who lost a spouse or there was nobody my age speaking out loud about the

experience of grief and loss. So thankfully that is changing because we need these resources and Shea is a tremendous resource for the community. I will link all of the information that you said in the show notes.

And yeah, I totally echo that. There's a lot of outdated, grief stuff out there, so it doesn't have to be that way. If you're finding something that's stuffy, probably is, so just keep moving and find something else.

Yes, the conversation is getting a tune up. What advice do you have for somebody in their early grief? Where do they start?

Mm hmm. Rest is productive. Your brain is dealing with so much trying to process this loss. So rest, rest, rest, rest, rest, just take all the rest opportunities you can and give your brain a chance to process what's going on. And then if you're a big feeler like me, try to have some positive experiences of your person who wants to run away from it, try to be brave, let yourself feel or have someone guide you in that feeling. And then

Speaker 2 (45:04.494)
Talk about your grief. Your grief needs to be expressed and witnessed. Tell your story and then tell it again and tell it again. I promise the people that love you will keep listening and if they're not listening, I will listen to you and Nina will listen to you. You just need to keep telling that story to help integrate it into your experience and don't feel bad about needing to talk about it. Keep talking about it.

Beautifully stated. Sharing our stories is so healing. I don't know if this happens to you, but every time I share my story, there's a little piece of me that integrates more into my lived reality. It honors the truth of it. Whenever I get to talk about my person, it helps me remember them practicing continued bonds. So the story aspect of it, we can sometimes feel like it's a burden to share our story and it is absolutely not. Not everybody's meant to be your audience. That's okay. We're not meant to share our story with everybody. That's okay.

We have agency as to how and when and with whom we decide to share all the details, but it is really, really important. We are just touching the tip of the iceberg. There are so many other grief myths. like Shay said, there's even a course for it. So if you want to know more of those, if you've encountered some of these and want to know how to navigate them, please by all means check out the show notes. I will have everything linked there. Is there something that I didn't touch on that maybe you want to say to?

Consider our conversation complete or anything that's in your heart today to share.

Yeah, I would just say the kind of ending for people that this is so hard grief that they're going through. Keep listening to podcasts like this because that will help you learn the grief language because you might not have the grief language. And like I said, with my story, each loss was different. It was expressed differently. So was almost like I had to learn a different language to explain how I felt about my sister dying, how I felt about my mom dying. So

Speaker 2 (46:57.088)
One of the most helpful things for me that we've already talked about was like following the hashtag on Instagram. But something about just listening to podcasts is something that I did. There wasn't that many, but I found a few. Listening to podcasts and hearing other people talk helped me start to understand myself, even if their story was totally different than mine. I could understand myself. I could start to understand the language. And when I wanted to be in that grief world, I could just put the headphones in and be in that grief world.

and then come out and be in my life. so that's just a free resource that's so helpful. So I want to encourage people to do that.

hearing other people's perspective is so helpful. And as a final question, what would Shay today say to Shay after your mother passed?

Let yourself have positive experiences, You gotta let yourself have positive experiences. Listen to the people around you who love you or telling you. just, yeah, like it was so interesting how you said that we would miss subtle things. I would miss subtle things from people who were trying to reflect, like my husband is a therapist, trying to reflect things to me. I just couldn't be told anything. So I think I would have saved myself some tantrums.

If I had allowed myself and positive experience and listened to some people that I trusted and loved me and like having more of a balance between in my grief and then like turning the page for that day and being in my life. And I think that that's something I help people with so much. Probably like most of the work I do is helping people find that balance and know that it's okay. They're safe to be in the grief. They can do it or it's okay to be in their lives. And also I would tell myself stop making lists.

Speaker 2 (48:45.154)
I would make lists all the time. Like I was gonna fix my life by making all these lists. I can't remember myself making lists. And I never did anything on the lists. And they just make me so stressed out. So quit making lists.

Wise words all around. Thank you so much, Shea, for everything you do, for sharing your story and for being such a light in this space and in so many people's lives. It is an absolute honor to have this conversation with you, and I thank you for your time.

Thank you, this was awesome.

That's it for today's episode. Be sure to subscribe to the Grief and Light podcast. I'd also love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and your stories. Feel free to share them with me via my Instagram page at griefandlight, or you can also visit griefandlight.com for more information and updates. Thank you so much for being here, for being you, and always remember, you are not alone.