Finding Pockets of Sunshine: Dr. Monica Krishnan on Grief, Mental Health and Healing

In this conversation, Dr. Monica Krishnan shares her profound journey through grief, self-discovery, and healing after losing her husband to brain cancer. She discusses her experiences with high-functioning depression, the importance of support systems, and her advocacy work in mental health. Dr. Krishnan emphasizes the need for open conversations about grief, especially among children, and the role of spirituality in healing. Her insights and personal stories provide listeners with hope and practical tools for navigating their own grief journeys. She discusses the importance of shedding societal labels, embracing one's true essence, and the transformative power of stillness. The dialogue emphasizes the unique nature of grief, the significance of finding joy amidst sorrow, and the importance of intentional rest and reflection. Dr. Krishnan also shares her new children's book, 'Finding Pockets of Sunshine,' which follows 8 year old Anisha as she discovers resilience and joy amidst grief, showcasing the transformative power of love and hope in the face of loss.

Takeaways:

• Support systems are crucial in navigating grief and loss.
• Children need to learn about grief and mental health early on.
• Dr. Krishnan's book aims to help children understand grief.
• Spirituality played a significant role in her healing journey.
• Grace is essential in the grieving process.
• Community and connection can help alleviate feelings of isolation.
• Advocacy for mental health awareness is vital for societal change. 
• There are many labels that are put on somebody who has experienced loss.
• Stripping off the labels and learning who we are without them is healing.
• It is so important to rest. Vipassana retreats are an excellent way to do so.
• Grief is an invitation to slow down.
• You can also have pockets of sunshine in your grieving journey.
• Your journey of grief is your journey.
• Stories keep our love alive and growing.

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Join THE COMMUNITY | A virtual space to navigate grief, together.
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Connect with Dr. Monica Krishnan:

• @drmonicapharmd
• @pocketsofsunishine
• Book: Finding Pockets of Sunshine

Connect with Nina Rodriguez:

• @griefandlight
• griefandlight.com
• 1:1 Grief Support

Disclaimer: griefandlight.com/safetyanddisclaimers

Chapters

• 0:00 Preview & Intro song
• 0:38 Introduction, Meet Dr. Monica Krishnan
• 4:25 Divine Intervention
• 6:46 Navigating high-functioning depression
• 8:33 Mental Health Toolbox
• 11:30 Stages of Grief
• 14:07 Educating children on grief and mental health
• 17:18 Grief, Spirituality, Darma, Removing the labels
• 26:30 Vipassana
• 30:46 Diwali
• 33:18 Pink Lipstick and Grieving Differently
• 35:44 Book: Finding Pockets of Sunshine
• 38:41 The Butterfly Effect

Transcript

griefandlight (00:00.089)
So one of my biggest wishes when I started my book project two years ago is I wanted to release it during Diwali, which is our Indian New Year. And just the significance of Diwali, it's light versus darkness and just bringing light into your hearts, into your world, into your homes. And that's what Finding Pockets of Sunshine is all about. You just lost your loved one. Now what?

Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast where we explore this new reality through grief colored lenses. Openly, authentically, I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started. How can we find pockets of sunshine in the midst of grief and life's challenges? Today's guest is Dr. Monica Christian, a clinical pharmacist with over 25 years of experience and a dedicated advocate for grief and mental health.

After losing her husband in 2011, she experienced high functioning depression. Then 2018 marked a pivotal turning point in her healing journey and the commencement of her advocacy work. Since then, she has shared her journey and spread awareness through speaking, writing, and most recently as the author of her first children's book, Finding Pockets of Sunshine, which aims to help children understand grief and mental health at an early age.

I am very much looking forward to this conversation. Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast, Dr. Monica. Thank you, Nina. It's an honor to be here. I'm such a fan of your work and truly, truly thankful for you. Likewise, and I'm thankful for you as well. You have such a beautiful blend of lived experience and your education and your current work, and I'm excited to dig into it. So let's start in 2011, which was the pivotal moment in your life. How that journey started and where you are today.

start wherever you'd like, Yeah. 2011 was a big pivotal moment in my life. I lost my husband to a rare form of brain cancer. We had been married seven years total. Two of those years he battled cancer. When he passed, my children were only three and five. So here I now found myself as

griefandlight (02:20.0)
A solo parent navigating this world and just felt so lost in life. I could see how disorienting those type of changes can be, especially as a single mother with the kids and trying to understand my life was supposed to be this way, whatever that means. And then it's not. And not only is it not, but the whole dynamic changes because I'm understanding that at that point you were taking care of your husband. We were caretakers, which is a lot of work.

you go from having this life to having to start over in this context. What was that like for you? It was really hard. So I'm a clinical pharmacist by profession. took two years off to be, like you said, a full-time caretaker from hands-on nursing to managing his medications to taking him to all his doctor's appointments to physical therapy. I mean, everything. So taking two years off from work,

And then kind of getting my feet back into clinical pharmacy. The hardest part was when I was applying for jobs, people would question me, well, why haven't you worked for two years? And then having to share the real reason I would find myself in interviews just bawling and crying and said, telling them that, you know, I took two years off to take care of my dying husband.

the heaviness of that, the fullness of that experience is hard to explain. I've talked to caregivers and it is a grief in and of itself, a big grief seeing your person decline and the effort and the life, releasing that life that you thought you would have with very little options as to how you feel in control in that moment. So I could see that and I'm sorry that so many people didn't see and honor maybe what you had gone through as worthy of.

look at this person, managed to get through all of that. She could be an asset to our company, but thankfully there was one fateful visit to this pharmacy. Tell us about that story because it sounds like it was very serendipitous and changed everything. I get teary-eyed just thinking about it. I think about divine intervention. I was up in

griefandlight (04:42.624)
you know, the city where my parents live, which is where I reside now. And I was literally, Nina, wearing yoga pants, a tank top, a hat. And my mom sends me to the grocery store to go get some yogurt. And next to this Albertson's grocery store is a small independent pharmacy called Saugus Drugs. And I said, what the heck? Let me just walk in. There was no reason for me to walk in. I walked in and I walked all the way back.

to the pharmacy and this really nice gentleman walks out, greets me and I said to him, hi, my name is Monica and I'm looking for a job. And he looks at me and he's like, my pharmacist just quit an hour ago. Wow. And I was like, what? So this happened on a Friday. On Monday, the following Monday, I get a full official interview.

and was hired. that job till this day, Nina, I'm no longer with that company. but till this day, that job in the 25 years I've worked in different avenues of pharmacy is my favorite job. I feel that was like my soul's birth to kind of come back into Monica again. And the way I got the job, I look back at it 12 years later.

That was divine intervention. There's no other way to explain it. Absolutely. And I love that story. Thank you for sharing it because in our grief and in what seems like a hopeless reality at times, in that desperation, in the world of questions and very little answers, moments like this could be such a lifeline and they could quite literally mark the beginning of what you said, like the coming back home to Monica. So thank you for sharing that. That's beautiful. And I'm glad you

got that, you know, that to this day it remains one of your fondest memories. I love that. even with the beauty in that, you still experienced what you call high functioning anxiety. Please share a little bit about that, how you experienced it, and then when that shifted for you, please. Yeah, so I battled high functioning depression, you know, for the audience who don't really understand what high functioning depression is. It basically is you looked all put together, right? Your hair's done, your makeup's done.

griefandlight (07:07.224)
You've got your nails done. From the physical appearance, you, you know, you don't look like you're depressed, but truthfully it's when all that stuff comes off, right? You wash your face, you type your hair, change your clothes. You just kind of crawl into bed or you crawl into like the corner of the bathroom, which is what I kind of did for many years. So people would just assume that, well, you know, she's at work. She's.

going to the blowout lounge to get her hair done. She's wearing a bright pink lipstick. She's got to be okay. And that's far from what I was going through. I was not okay. And I battled for a good seven years. A year after my husband passed away, I walked into my doctor's office and I said, you know what? I'm not okay. I need help. And I started taking a low dose antidepressant. And that's when I started finding pockets of sunshine in my life.

And thank you for bringing that up. realize I misspoke. said high functioning anxiety. That might have been like a Freudian slip on my end because I experienced a lot of anxiety. I think anxiety and depression, they intertwine. Thank you for your honesty. that because so that is something that a lot of people have a hard time coming to terms with and expressing. And yet it seems to be common. I don't have the statistics on this, but it seems to be an experience where there's a fine line between grief and when it could turn to actual depression.

And so I heard you talk about your mental health toolbox. What was in your toolbox at that time that you decided to tap into, with medications being some of them and then asking for help. Yeah, so my toolbox from day one was therapy. Like the very first thing that I did for myself was start grief therapy. I put my children in group support. I joined a gym.

That's one of the first things I have always been someone who has loved to dance, Indian dance. So Zumba, like I'll kid you not, like there were times in the earlier days where I would be in the back of a Zumba class, just bawling for an hour, crying. Obviously no one could see me cause I'm in the back. And, but I got my cardio in, my workout in. And so for my toolbox,

griefandlight (09:28.786)
in the earlier days, know, obviously medication, therapy, working out, physical exercise, self-help books, and just trying to find people who I could connect with who are kind of going through the same thing that I was going through, which was really hard because there were not too many, you know, 36-year-old South Asian women who I could connect to who could really understand what I was going through.

Right. And out of curiosity, did you ever find somebody that resembled you in terms of culture and your age and your particular experience of loss? Did you ever connect with somebody or just not at all? So I did connect with someone who was not South Asian. She was Caucasian. She was a neighbor. And she was the one who actually introduced me to the grief counselor that I worked with for six months. So she kind of became like, you know,

not only was she my neighbor, she kind of became my go-to person as to like, do I navigate this? Like, you know, I'm feeling angry right now, but then at the same time, I'm, you know, I'm having a hard time getting to acceptance and, you know, the five stages of grief. Like my emotions are all over the place. And so she kind of like held my hand the first six months. She no longer lives in my community, but I'll forever be grateful because she held my hand.

And sometimes it only takes like a complete, even can be a complete stranger who can say, too, or I know. And you have this like instant connection. And you feel like you're not alone. That's one of the most powerful medicines, if you will, that presence that I see you and me too. And there's no fixing, there's no bringing our person back, but just knowing that we're not alone is powerful, powerful medicine.

Thank you for bringing that up. And I'm, you know, as far as the five stages, talk a little bit more about that because there's this split, if you will, in the grief world about whether or not they're helpful to some people and exactly how does it play out. So what's your take on that as well? So my take on that, and it's something that I've actually addressed in my children's book, is everyone gets to acceptance in their own way. You know, for some,

griefandlight (11:54.496)
It can take five years for some, can take 20 years for some, can take an entire lifetime. Some people cannot get to acceptance and they struggle. My takeaway is give yourself grace. You can bounce back from, you know, anger to denial to all the different stages. I think the most important thing is to allow yourself to really sit in those emotions and feel them.

Because if we try to numb them, they're going to keep coming up. So my takeaway is give yourself grace. Grace is so important. And actually, that phrase in particular was the one that helped me free myself from expectations during my early grief. I shared with a friend, I said, you know, the most difficult thing took me about three to four weeks to get over it. So let's double that time. This is how my mind.

tried to understand grief and the loss of my brother. And I said, so it should take about two to three months. And then that time rolled around and I felt awful still. And if anything, I was more confused about what I was feeling. And I said, my gosh, this is forever, isn't it? And so I panicked. called the girlfriend. Her mother had passed away 10 months prior from breast cancer. And I said, tell me what to do, please. Tell me what do I do here? And she said, honey, show yourself grace. Like, this is...

So unique to each of us and you're going to find your own answers, but show yourself grace, be so gentle with yourself. So thank you for saying that. And I love that you incorporated this in your children's book because what a lesson, you know, if only we had these tools when we were younger, it would have changed everything. And I'm so thankful that these conversations are happening now, better now than never. Like you said, maybe back then there wasn't, not maybe, back then, even five years ago back then.

there were little to no resources publicly available. There was no public discourse the way that it's happening now. So what a beautiful gift to be able to bring this conversation at the forefront of your work and to children. So I would like to know why children, why not maybe teenagers, right? What made you choose children in particular? So my book, Finding Pockets of Sunshine, I wrote it for

griefandlight (14:19.627)
Children, depending on their reading capabilities, this book is designed for ages nine and older. It's not your typical picture book. It's an actual story. for those watching on YouTube, you could actually see the book. Yeah. It's a book that's designed to read as a family. So let's say you want to read it to a five-year-old.

then the family members, know, a mom, a dad, a parent, a grandparent can read it. I've designed the book that it's not just for children to pick, for a child to pick up and read on their own. I've designed it to be very interactive as a family because it is the family unity is what's going to help you get through those difficult times. And so when I was looking for,

a children's book on mental health and grief. I couldn't find anything that I could relate to as a South Asian woman. This book is also designed not only for South Asian families, it's for global minds, global readers. But for me, when we can start talking about mental health from an early age where you can understand things like, I need to ask for help. You too, you feel these emotions as well.

I feel sad today. Today I'm just struggling. If you can start talking about those things at the age of eight, nine, 10, then it can become something very easy to do as a teenager. And then we work our way to, you know, young adults and then, you know, obviously adulthood. So I think there's just so much stigma in general when it comes to mental health. And I see that as a clinical pharmacist. So.

When we can educate our children that it's normal to talk about mental health and grief and all these topics, then why not start that at an early age? Absolutely. there's an anchoring. I like, heard the phrase grief inclusive, creating grief inclusive spaces. And I love that because grief is a part of the human experience. So long as you're human, you will.

griefandlight (16:34.033)
probably experience grief. Why not be empowered and have the tools to navigate it, have the language? I feel like it's a language too, knowing how to talk to each other about it, knowing how to talk about our grief and feelings and emotions and rewinding a little bit talking about how you mentioned your toolbox, right? And you included exercise. There is a physical component to grief. There's the emotions, there's the mind, there's the spirituality, which I know that's played a big part in your life as well.

having these conversations earlier as a family would be incredibly powerful and life altering in the best way and would be very enriching. So thank you for that. Curious, does spirituality play a part in that book as well? Did you include that or did you intentionally leave that part out? So no, there is no spirituality in this book, but that may come in book two and book three. I love that because I

You know, in working with grief, is a spiritual aspect and for the sake of nuance, spirituality is not the same as religion. I want to make that separation. We're not talking about religion here. But there is a spiritual component to this experience. And I've heard anecdotally, it's the part that unlocks the healing for a lot of people. And it sounds like that's part of how it happened with you. And I believe it was like around 2018 that I share that beautiful transformation as well.

I felt really lost pretty much all the way up till 2017. I battled my high functioning depression. was on the go working, raising kids, family, just dealing with home. And then, you know, I was off social media for a really long time. And then I went on social media and I reconnected with a dear friend who happens to be one of my best friends right now, Dr. Deepthi Gandhi. And she had posted something.

about a conference, women's conference called Evolve. And, you know, I, I messaged her, said, what is this? And so that was the beginning of me being very curious of what else is out there. What is this? I'm seeking answers to life's questions. So I went to this conference, and it sparked something in me where I was like, okay, I'm not meant to be in this little, you know, bubble or, know,

griefandlight (18:57.361)
categorized as widow, I'm more than that. Because for many years, Nina, people would just address me, so and so is widow, this is widow, and you're checking off these boxes on tax forms and paperwork, widow, widow. So it just became like, my God, is that all I am now? And I went to this conference and I just was introduced to this beautiful group who today I get to call my soul sisters. And these were just women.

who just were at this beautiful spiritual space, their vibration level was super high, they were just living very consciously. And I was like, it was like this like electric shock for me. I was like, okay, like there's more to my life. What does this mean? And then in 2020, I was introduced to who happens to be

My spiritual teacher today, her name is Priya Jain. I'm so honored because she actually has written a testimonial in my book for me. She now takes me really, really deep into my spiritual practice. But before I get into the spiritual practice, she has to crack and get deeper into that trauma and into that healing. And the next thing you know, from 2020 to 2022, it was like an onion layer of trauma and healing.

and trauma and healing and it's hard work and such hard work, trauma healing. And then I started going on these like beautiful meditation retreats, my Vipassana, which I did last year. So I then came to the realization that

The way my life unfolded, it had to be that way. It had to be that way for me to be in my dharma, to be able to be of service to other women, men, families who are going through loss and grief. And over the last, I don't know, seven years, people have reached out to me. Monica, can you talk to this woman? She lost her husband. Monica, can you talk to this person? She's lost her husband.

griefandlight (21:18.575)
These are complete strangers who have picked up the phone and said, hey, how can I help you? So that's when I started getting these like visions of like, okay, I'm tapping into something that's way beyond my comprehension, but it feels like this is where I need to be. It sounds like almost like a calling that you didn't expect and then you answer the call. So thank you for answering the call. And I love that you say I'm not this identity because

There are so many labels, even for tax purposes, like you said, there's so many labels that are put on somebody who has experienced loss. In my case, I remember I went back to work and my colleague said, well, now that you're an only child, and her words faded into the background, but it was the first time that my identity felt threatened because I'd never thought of myself as anything as an only child. Nothing wrong with that. It's just that I had a sibling and I never thought of myself as not a sister.

It's interesting in your case, know, so and so's widow. And then that label is put on you. technically, sure, that's what we are now, sure. But that's not the only thing we are. we are so much bigger than even our names, even our gaffings. Like we're so much bigger than all of this. So talk to us about that journey, that cracking open that you talk about, that inner work, that peeling the layers of the onion. What nugget of truth did you touch that?

made you not only answer the call, but really embrace the fullness of this experience. You know, I think for me, it was really figuring out who is Monica at her core essence. Who is she? You know, and I learned that in my Vipassana. I took off all the labels. I took off mom, clinical pharmacist, author, friend, daughter. I stripped it all off and I'm like,

Who the heck is Monica? And it's that spirit within us. It's this beautiful spirit within us. And I tapped into her. And I realized at that moment that we are not the labels that society puts on us. We live in a society, we live in a matrix where people have to categorize us. Married, single, divorced.

griefandlight (23:40.877)
you know, clinical pharmacist. I mean, you name it, there's a label for everything. But that is not who we are and our core essence. You know, these are just temporary things in life. And it's something that I had to, you know, I have heard it all, even like in the earlier days, like, even people I thought were my friends would categorize me as a widow, or they'll make comments that are just inappropriate and

Maybe they didn't realize that those words were hurting me, but they were like slowly crushing me inside to a point where I was starting to believe what others were saying, what society was saying, what trusted friends were saying. So then I went through this like vicious cycle of self-pity. I was starting to pity myself. Like maybe what they're saying is true. And it is thankfully to this

beautiful spiritual journey of coming home to myself.

Thank you for that. And that coming home is incredibly powerful, personal, it looks different for everybody. That is part of why they say, you know, grief is different for everybody. That's an aspect of that. And yet when you get there, when you touch that unseen space, that truth within, I'm not this, I'm not even my career. In my case, I changed what I do for a living. said, this doesn't even fit me or describe me anymore. There's the different purpose now. And that willingness to

shed to acknowledge what is underneath all of that and then to show up in your full self is so incredibly powerful. And it sounds like you were able to do that not just with the pasta that always get this wrong, the pasta, the retreat, which I want you to talk about in a little bit, you harness all the tools in your toolbox. So it was the physical it was the, know, talking to the grief counselors and the therapists and relying on family and community or neighbor.

griefandlight (25:44.565)
and your parents, it was all of it. It's never just this one thing. A lot of people think it's what's the prescription, if you will, no pun intended, but what's the prescription for my grief and how do I get rid of it? And it's like, gosh, it's so much bigger than that. it encompasses all these different aspects of our lives and it taps into so many of our resources. But once we accept that, it's like, okay, this is the way it's supposed to happen. it's, let me just explore.

address it with curiosity and take it from there. So I love that you went from physical to spiritual to medical to family to all of it to the person that's sitting in front of me today and helping other people with her calling. And for those who don't know, talk about the retreat and what exactly that is and the whole power behind sitting in stillness and in quiet. Yeah, it's one of the most powerful things I've ever done. Probably one of the hardest things too.

Last year, I went on my very first vipassana. So for those of you who don't know what it is, it basically means to sit in stillness. And so I sat in stillness for four days. We had to turn in our phones. So for four days, no phones, no electronics, nothing. It's this beautiful spiritual center up on the hills. It's just beautiful. know, several hundred acre avocado farm where it's just green.

lush everywhere. And, you know, I learned a lot about myself. I learned a lot about who am I? Like, who am I beyond all these labels? It was just a very transformational experience. Sitting with your thoughts is a very hard thing to do. So for this first 24 hours, it's like chitter chatter, chitter chatter. my God, I can't quiet my thoughts. But

You know, they do help us in the retreats with breath work, meditations, yoga, to help to get into that point of complete stillness, which was by day two, going into day three, I was at complete stillness. No thoughts at all going through my mind. Nothing. was like, holy cow. Like I have no thoughts going through my head. I mean, I remember sitting in a garden for an hour and a half watching

griefandlight (28:11.707)
a spider create a spider web. I literally sat there for an hour and a half and I'm like, this is the most fascinating thing I've ever seen better than any Spider-Man movie in my life. And it made me realize the importance of stillness. We live in such a busy world and we live in a world where we are constantly on the go. If it's not this, it's that, it's this, especially as parents. When you're not doing your own thing, you're doing something for your children or, you know, at work or

for your family, whoever it is, your parents. And so it made me realize that like, it is so important to rest. I have to tell you, it is after the Vipassana that the story of finding pockets of sunshine kind of came through me. And so I began writing it immediately. And so, the book idea came to me a year before that, but the story I started writing.

right after my Vipassana. So I feel like this, like I tapped into a really beautiful creative side of me. That sounds amazing. All of it. And sitting in stillness to me sounds wonderful. And first of all, I'm an introvert. I love being quiet. I love my solitude. I love it. I thrive in it. But I know it's not easy. And what I can say is, you know, we live in a connected world. We have these devices. And I'm showing my iPhone. And it's constantly that.

you know, people reaching out to you, there's always a ding and a ping and a message and something to pay attention to. And then as a mother, like you said, your kids and just life, life, Yes. To be able to slow down, I like to say grief is an invitation to slow down among many other definitions. It can be an invitation to slow down. So allowing yourself that space, I would imagine it's also just good for your mental health as well to slow down and rest and recharge. And

there's so much power in nature, like letting nature nurture us. Like you said, you're sitting there watching the spider weave and just being mesmerized by this. And that stillness is what allows those beautiful moments of inspiration to come through. And here's a book out of it. So look at how full circle all of this is. I love it. And so with you, we were talking before and you were mentioning that you're doing a second Vipassana.

griefandlight (30:30.395)
So as of this recording, we are recording in mid-October and your book is coming out in about a couple of weeks. So tell us about this alignment of, know, rest and then the fullness that's going to happen in November. Tell us about what to expect in the coming months. Yeah. So one of my biggest wishes when I started my book project two years ago is I wanted to release it during Diwali, which is our Indian New Year.

And just the significance of Diwali, it's light versus darkness and just bringing light into your hearts, into your world, into your homes. And that's what Finding Pockets of Sunshine is all about. So, for me, was just beautifully aligned where Diwali happens, the book launches, and then a week later, I go back to a four-day stillness. Things are very busy right now. It's good busy.

but I'm also feeling like my body needs to be grounded for what's to come. November is going to be very busy. December is holidays. It's very busy. It's going to be a busy six weeks of a lot of content, a lot of book interviews, a lot of just podcast tapings. So for me, it was very important to ground myself, rest, know, preserve that energy of...

you know, of what's to come to refuel, to rejuvenate. And like you said, like there's just so much power in solitude. And so I'm extremely excited to go away to Vipassanakan and I'm getting to go again with my, well, this time, last time I went alone, but this time I get to go with three of my really best friends. that's wonderful. It's such an exciting thing. Obviously we can't hang out and talk, but being able to be in each other's presence.

in solitude is probably one of the most magical things you can do with a friend. Truly, and it sounds magical. feel like, like you said, you can't talk, but there is so much you can communicate in silence, too. Absolutely. That's wonderful. I'm happy for you. I'm inspired. And maybe I'll do that in the near future as well. think it sounds wonderful. I want to highlight that, especially when you're grieving or going through a hard time, build in those moments of rest, built intentionally.

griefandlight (32:54.437)
Go on the retreats if that's something that's accessible, or just go walk in nature if that's something that's accessible. So build those in around the demands of life. The demands will always be there, but there's something very empowering and grounding about being able to dedicate time to ourselves very intentionally. And you could even do it with friends. So that's great. Yeah. And I also want to highlight that grief

looks different for everybody. You can also have pockets of sunshine in your grieving journey where you do something and it makes you happy and that's okay too. You know, I think a lot of people feel like when you're grieving, you need to be sad all the time, you need to cry all the time and that's not the case. You could, you know, go on a trip with a friend and have a good time, yet you can still be grieving.

You could buy a nice purse. mean, whatever it is that, you know, for me, it was lipstick. I was literally buying lipstick all the time. I kid you not. the time I had like a hundred shades of a hundred different pink lipsticks, I was obsessed with pink lipsticks. That's the first time I hear that. But I could see how that brings, hey, whatever brings you that pocket of sunshine, that pocket of jewelry. It was pink lipsticks. you know, and that's, so important to remember that your journey of grief is your journey.

And don't let anyone ever make you feel bad or not good enough because, you know, they think that your journey should be a certain way, but you're not building up to their expectations, which I faced a lot. So my message, even in my book, have grace for your journey. That's what makes you special. That's what makes you unique. And that's your grief story.

Beautiful and and thank you for bringing that up because there's I feel like people say that even friends and family will say Take as long as you need and you know show yourself grace and they will say that and then the year mark comes around and they're like wait You're still not over it. So there's not this underlying expectation of sure take your time or whatever, but there's everybody has a definition of what that time you know, it's B so Thank you for bringing up that, know, it's very personal. It could take years. It could be

griefandlight (35:13.285)
You know, some people, they kind of have that normal grief where it's, okay, I'm sad, but you know, thank you for your life and moving on to the next thing. And there's other griefs that stick with us for a lifetime, the loss and how we process it. So it looks different for everybody. And it could be pink, from pink lipstick to retreats to all the things. love different expressions. Absolutely. So how can people get your book? Or can they work with you? How can we find more of Dr. Monica? Well,

First of all, thank you for having me. It's been an honor to talk to you. My Instagram handle, I'm sure you'll share that in the notes, is at DrMonicaFarmD. My book, Finding Pockets of Sunshine, will be available on Amazon starting November 1st. I'll also have a link in my bio, as well as a website will be going up soon as well around the holidays. So my social media page starting mid-November will be...

flooded with book content. also have an Instagram page for the actual book itself. And you can find that also on my main Instagram handle. It's listed on there. And the illustrations are beautiful. Who did the artwork? So it's this incredible artist named Prince Segudu who, believe it or not, lives on the other side of the world in South Africa.

A mutual friend of mine introduced me to this media house. It's based in South Africa called Ritenshine Media House. And the CEO of the media house, her and I met three years ago and what started off as a TEDx session, to do a TEDx session, turned into, I don't know if I want to do a TEDx right now, but something is calling me to do a book.

I was bouncing ideas back and forth to her. First it was a memoir. And then it was something was like, no, no, it's got to be something for children. And so we started bouncing ideas back and forth. So he's part of her team. And we literally, I'll have to show you, like it started off as stick figures. Let me show you this real quick. Okay.

griefandlight (37:33.529)
I like these are my stick figures. here's here's scene one stick figure and then this is scene one.

picture. Beautiful. Wow. And I hope if you're listening, there's going to be a link to the YouTube video so you can see what we're talking about there. I love seeing a good evolution from idea to ideation to production to the final product. That journey in and of itself feels so magical. So thank you for sharing that. From stick figure to this beautiful illustration. And I like asking because I find that authors are very intentional with who they partner with in terms of,

from illustration to all the things. There's always an intention and there was a connection there that felt more profound than beyond the book even. So I thank you for sharing that and I everything that you're doing and we only have a few minutes here so I want to give you space to maybe say something that's in your heart today or something that we didn't cover that you would like your listeners to receive today. Well if it's okay with you, I wrote this

There's about grief and I would love to read it to the audience. Absolutely, please do. Okay, it's called The Butterfly Effect. It's chapter 13 of my book. In a garden where the sunbeams play, among the flowers they love to stay. Butterflies dance on the gentle breeze, their colors are bright, a sight to seize. Yet in our hearts there lies a grief, for every flight there's a brief belief.

that in their wings a message is kept of loved ones gone for whom we have wept. But let us see in their graceful flight a symbol of hope shining so bright. For though our loved ones are now afar, they're like these butterflies, a beautiful star. So when you feel the weight of grief, remember the butterflies and their joyful relief. They remind us of the love that stays and the beautiful memories that always blaze.

griefandlight (39:40.857)
In every flutter, in every dance, they tell us to embrace life's chance, to live with love, to let go of fear. For those in the world, for in this world we have those dear. So watch the butterflies, let them guide your heart's journey. Let it not hide. For in their flight, there's a story told of love that grows and never grows old.

Wow, Dr. Monica, thank you. That was beautiful. And if you could see, I am a big fan of butterflies. They are so symbolic. And now we get to have this additional message through your beautiful book. So thank you for the gift. Thank you for all you're doing. Thank you for answering the call and sharing your beautiful service and wisdom and knowledge with the world. If you as a listener would like to get a copy of this book, I'm going to link everything in the show notes and

feel like that's the perfect conclusion, the perfect bowl to tie this conversation with. Thank you so much, Dr. Monica. Thank you, Nina. That's it for today's episode. Be sure to subscribe to the Grief and Light podcast. I'd also love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and your stories. Feel free to share them with me via my Instagram page at griefandlight, or you can also visit griefandlight.com for more information and updates.

Thank you so much for being here, for being you, and always remember, you are not alone.