THE GRIEF COCOON: Transforming Grief through Creative Expression | Gaby Georges

Multidisciplinary artist, creative grief guide, and podcast host, Gabriela Georges, talks about her journey through loss and how it has shaped her work. She shares the profound influence of her mother, Samira, who passed away shortly after a cancer diagnosis when Gaby was only 20, and how this loss inspired her to create The Grief Cocoon, a podcast and space for individuals to process their grief creatively. This episode explores themes of family dynamics, the impact of grief on personal identity, and the healing power of creative expression, community support, and nature. Gaby emphasizes the value of writing as a tool for self-awareness and learning. She also highlights the importance of embracing life fully, even in the face of loss, and encourages listeners to find ways to honor their loved ones through their creative expression.

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Takeaways:

• Loss can inspire us to live with greater purpose and intention.
• Creative expression, such as writing and poetry, can be a powerful tool for processing grief.
• Sharing our stories and experiences of grief can help us feel less alone and provide insights for others.
• The Grief Cocoon represents the messy and transformative process of grief. Writing can be a powerful tool for self-awareness and learning in the grief journey.
• Sharing grief with others in a community can provide validation, support, and a sense of not being alone.
• The Swedish proverb 'grief shared is grief halved' highlights the importance of sharing grief with others.
• The Grief Cocoon offers various services, including group work, one-on-one sessions, and a mobile app with coping tools.
• Movement and nature can be therapeutic in processing grief.
• Exploring and traveling can be ways to honor loved ones and find joy in life after loss.
• Signs and synchronicities can provide comfort and a sense of connection with loved ones who have passed away.

Connect with Gaby Georges:

• thegriefcocoon.com
• IG @thegriefcocoon
• Podcast

Connect with Nina Rodriguez:

• @griefandlight
• griefandlight.com
• 1:1 Support
• Subscribe to my newsletter

Disclaimer: griefandlight.com/safetyanddisclaimers

Chapters

• 0:47 Preview & Intro song
• 0:47 Introduction
• 2:48 How Samira influenced Gaby's journey in life and loss
• 5:58 Navigating Family Dynamics
• 8:47 The Journey of Grief
• 12:01 Understanding Grief's Impact
• 15:12 Creative Expression as Healing
• 18:04 Building Community Through Grief
• 21:07 The Power of Writing
• 23:55 Movement and Grief Processing
• 27:12 Nature's Role in Healing
• 30:11 Finding Signs from Loved Ones
• 32:57 Living Life Fully
• 36:10 Final Reflections on Grief

Transcript

griefandlight (00:00.162)
was inspired by my mom because some of her final words or messages to us was enjoy life. I think she worked so hard all of her life and didn't get that chance to just enjoy life. And her and my dad used to sort of think, well, we'll work hard now and then when we retire, we'll enjoy life. But she never got that. She never got there and she never got that chance. And so I didn't want to live my life with that.

idea that I was guaranteed a long life. You just lost your loved one. Now what? Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast where we explore this new reality through grief -colored lenses. Openly, authentically, I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started. Can the experience of loss also inspire us to live with greater purpose and intention? Today's guest is Gabriela Georges, and she is a multidisciplinary artist.

creative grief guide and founder of the Grief Cocoon. Her work was inspired by her beloved mother, Samira, who unfortunately died four months after her cancer diagnosis when Gabby was only 20 years of age. Today, Gabby supports people to creatively process, befriend, and transform their grief through creative writing, movement rituals, and community connection through the Grief Cocoon. Joining us today from Melbourne, Australia, bright and early,

Welcome to the Grief and Light podcast, Gabby. Thank you so much, Nina. I'm really honored to be here and to be talking to you. Likewise, and thank you for rising so early. I don't even know if the sun's fully out where you are right now, but thank you for your time and for being here. So I'd like to just jump right in and ask you, was Samira? Who was your beautiful mother? Tell us about her and how she has influenced your work today.

So Samira is my mom. She was stylish, very loving, very loved woman, I guess. You know, she made friends wherever she went and it didn't matter about their age or their gender or sexuality or cultural background. She just seemed to pick up friends wherever she was. My parents used to run stores and she'd always make friends with like the customers and

griefandlight (02:21.976)
people would just love talking to her. She was very kind of caring and very, I would say that, you I experienced unconditional love through having her as my mom. So I was very lucky in that sense. And yeah, she just was amazingly patient and just very warm as a person, like very, very warm. And I think she was also, she loved volunteering and giving back.

and she was very generous and kind. so try, you I can never really, I can never be her or I can never sort of live up to that, live up to how amazing she was, but I try to sort of embody or have more of the characteristics that she had in terms of like being kind and generous and non -judgmental. I try to incorporate that into my.

into my life with the people that I speak to and through the work that I do, through supporting people, through grief, she is the reason why Grief Cocoon even exists because without that experience, which was really hard to deal with and which was really difficult, I wouldn't even be working in this space and I wouldn't even think about it. And so she kind of changed my life. Well, the loss of my mom, you know, really

changed the trajectory and how I ended up getting to this work. She sounds like a beautiful person and beautiful soul that just felt probably very warm to everybody that she met because that type of personality tends to be very unique. And it's the one that invites a stranger to open up to conversation without having anything in common or not knowing what you have in common initially. So she sounds like a beautiful person. And I'm curious.

Because when I hear the grief cocoon and I've seen the logo that you have for your business and your podcast, that's the feeling that I get. It's like wrapped in warmth. And I'm curious if that's part of, if that was intentional and if that's something that you did to carry her spirit through to your work. I can't say that it was intentional. The name kind of came to me one night as I was going to sleep. As I was going to bed, I had been trying to come up

griefandlight (04:40.278)
with different names and then it just popped into my head, the grief cocoon and I thought, yeah, that's it. I, the connection I kind of see with her through that is that she used to collect butterflies and my sister tells me that she had a book of butterflies. And so the cocoon, guess is connected to that because, the cocoon is the messy part. It's the transformation. It's the, yeah, I do see it as like wrapped in warmth and I think that.

that is grief, you know, that's what happens. Well, we look for support, but it's also very messy, ugly sometimes, but the transformation that we go through kind of makes us a different person. And, you know, normally what comes out of a cocoon is a butterfly. And that reminds me of my mom. That's even more beautiful.

And as you're talking, you envision that stage of the butterfly's development and they turn into literal goo. And it's that process in our life when everything is transitioning, transforming, changing, alchemizing all the things, and yet it needs to be protected in this beautiful cocoon. So it's so fitting, it's so beautiful. It's the both and, the messiness, the pain, and this beautiful.

transformation that's taking place. So living in that place of becoming, think that's actually very beautiful. So thank you for sharing that story. And I know that you are the youngest of, I believe, four siblings. So how has that, you know, the loss of Samira changed your family dynamic? How has it evolved since her passing? I think it was quite hard to, to, to, I think she was

In some ways, the person that brought everyone together, you know, she would sort of, it was a great cook and she would always sort of like, even if we, even though my sisters weren't living in a family home, you know, she'd invite them over. And so she was kind of the person, the gatherer. And so it was a bit hard without her when it was like, well, my dad's not going to do that. And it's like, we're not used to doing that either kind of creating.

griefandlight (06:55.174)
know, times to spend together. So for a while it was a bit strange, but I think we, me and my sisters have grown closer since the loss. We've shared that together and even though we've grieved differently, kind of know that we can talk with each other about her and we'll send each other messages if anything comes up that reminds us of her. Like if there's a photo we see or if there's a memory.

You know, sometimes that memory pops up. Yeah, just anything that reminds us of her, we send it to each other and, you know, it sort of brought us together. I know we are a lot closer now. I think that's special because it could go either way and you hear stories of, you know, families who unfortunately break up afterwards and then there are families that actually come together. So I think that's very nice. And in the spirit of your mom being that glue of the family, I feel like you're all.

embodying that in your own way, but it must be so hard. And if you could share about the experience of being so young, because 20 is very young to lose your mother, and I know four months is very fast. Was it a diagnosis that you knew right away that this was going to be the outcome eventually, or was there a lot of hope in between? Say as much or as little as you'd like to share. I only want you to share what you're comfortable with. Well, was diagnosed with Juardino cancer, which is

pretty rare and we knew that she had later, it was in the later stages of cancer, but yeah, there was definitely a lot of hope. We wanted to try different things and see if she was getting treatment through chemo. Yeah, so we definitely did have hope and it was the first time we'd ever experienced someone so close go through that and we'd never had a close family member in our family die. so there was, yeah, there was like,

a lot of, I think, denial as well, like, no, you know, surely she'll get through this because our mom, you know, very strong and one of those moms where it's like, yeah, she's invincible, you know, that's what I thought. And I thought, you know, she'll get through this. And so, yeah, was, there was a lot of hope and it was sort of maybe only towards the end where she was in palliative care. And so that, you know, is the place where people go when it's more about comfort and making sure they haven't.

griefandlight (09:16.48)
a comfortable end. And so that was sort of the stage where it was like, okay, you know, maybe, maybe she won't make it. So that was, yeah, it was all really shocking and unexpected because up until then she was still very like active and she was very healthy as well. She, she was very, yeah, she seemed to be very strong. And I hear, you know, in situations, we really don't know the outcome. It has nothing to do with the character of the person or the strength of the person. These are

really unpredictable elements that are out of our control. And so I hear you, the conversations that I've had with people who have lost somebody to cancer, they're similar because accepting the alternative is just not an option in that moment, especially when you first get a diagnosis, the alternative is like, no, that's not going to happen. Did you have the opportunity to say goodbye? Did you feel like you got that? Or did you feel like there was an ending that is still ongoing? In my case, it was a sudden loss.

And I feel like we never really got to say that goodbye. Did you get that opportunity? Yeah, I would say we definitely did. And I'm really grateful for that because I think about, yeah, like you having had experience of sudden loss and then even people during COVID who couldn't visit their family, you know, in hospital. it's just, it seems a bit unfair when you don't get to say goodbye. I was, yeah, I think I was really lucky that

It was gradual and even though four months might seem quite short still because people maybe have cancer for years or they go into remission and then they get cancer again. some people last a lot longer, but they make it through it. They live a healthy life. But we did get a chance to say what we wanted to say. And I think that was important because

My mum didn't want to die. wasn't ready. She actually did say like she had unfinished business. And my sister says that it's seeing me reach certain milestones like that she wanted to be here for because I think, you know, she thought, well, I'm still too young to not have her around. And so one of the things that I said to her was like, I'll be okay, you know, it's okay.

griefandlight (11:33.88)
we'll make it through, we'll be fine. I just wanted to reassure her that if it wasn't our destiny for her to continue on, that we would be okay and that we would make it through. I think that made a difference, I feel. Just giving her some peace of mind as well that she can, that you would be okay. think she would probably, her heart and her spirit probably needed to hear that. Yeah, think so. There's a lot of fear, I guess. There's people who've...

You have even, you have children, younger children as well. And that's always kind to be fear. But I guess I was glad that I, yeah, I can say those things to her. I'm glad you got that. That's beautiful. There's never that full closure, I don't think, but at least you had that opportunity to say those words and hopefully leave her heart a little bit lighter as she transitioned. She really does sound like a beautiful soul, beautiful person. And

So sorry for the loss because, you know, at the end of the day, we're here, this work is beautiful, we get to do these wonderful things, but we want our people. We would probably have the alternative in a blink of an eye. So I'm curious, what was your relationship with grief? Were you familiar with grief or was this just brand new to you? Yeah, I don't feel like I knew what grief was before that experience with my mom. I had a lot of emotions though as a teenager.

I probably experienced some form of grief, but I probably couldn't recognize it as grief. And yeah, it took a while for it to sink in. think the first emotion I felt after my mom took her last breath was a relief because she was in pain. And I actually was relieved that she no longer had to deal with that. But it took a while for the fact that, you know, she wasn't physically anymore. It took a while for that to sink in and that happened over time. And I think.

I, my relationship with grief was, I was numb to it in a way. I didn't really know how to cope the emotions that I was feeling. so for a number of years, for the first few years, I just really didn't feel much, you know, and, and that I could see that it.

griefandlight (13:46.914)
you know, wasn't just not feeling the sadness or not feeling the frustration on, yeah, I think it was mainly sadness. It was also not feeling any joy or any contentment. Like I just couldn't feel anything. And so I was sort of just going through the motions in life. Yeah, it definitely was maybe the fourth year I actually, kept writing through that time. And maybe that was a way where I could sort of release some emotions, but.

I couldn't express them verbally or physically express my emotions. I was, I guess I had writing as a tool to at least see what I was feeling and thinking. It felt like a long time before I could actually feel alive again. It was sort of, know, yeah, I'd go to work, but I think it was sort of maybe a form of disassociation or disconnection with myself. just, I was in a place, but I wasn't really present. And so I think they were all kind of

of the same soup of like just, yeah, just disconnection and numbness. And so, yeah, it took me three or four years to really start to express myself to other people when I started to share my poetry. So yeah, wasn't very, you know, it took a while. It's understandable. And there's some grace in that numbness. At first, it could be very scary because like you said, you don't feel perhaps the sadness, but also you don't feel the joy. It's very...

disorienting and it could be very disconcerting as you're navigating through life, especially when you start going into the years because same, had a very similar experience. Mine lasted about three and a half years. And I just did a podcast with somebody who said theirs lasted about three and a half years and you just three to four years. So I'm seeing a pattern here. I'm not saying that that's a number for all across the board by any means, everybody's different, but I keep hearing this type of timeframe for when

people start saying, okay, you my senses are starting to come back online and I can officially start picking up where I left off or start dealing with these things that perhaps I wasn't able to feel before this. It's very, it's more common, I guess, from the conversations that I've had. And I could see it as our minds and our bodies trying to protect us so that we can do life and the things we need to do on a daily basis after unimaginable loss. So you were talking about your creative outlets and I know that

griefandlight (16:10.926)
played a huge role in your current work. So how did you go from basically not really having a relationship with grief to being thrusted into this world to it becoming the work you do now to help other people navigate grief? I'm always curious about that journey. haven't very organically, would say only because it began with me sharing my creative work with others, you know, I got to a point where

Yeah, around the fourth year I was like, I'm actually now writing poetry that isn't just raw emotion. I'm actually turning it into, like, I could see that it was something ready to share because now it's hard, with spoken word, it's sometimes you hear people kind of more venting their raw emotion. And I think for me, I have to know that I've done some processing and I can see it in the writing, whether I could see that I had been,

gotten to a place where I was starting to process my grief and turning it into something other than raw, direct kind of a description of my emotions. So once I started sharing my poetry, I had people coming up to me afterwards and basically sharing their stories. And so it was me sharing my story thinking, you know, I'm just sharing my story. And then others coming up to me and going, I could totally relate. I've lost my grandma or I lost, you know, I went through that experience in hospital.

And so they would start sharing their journey as well. And then I was like, wow. Like I thought I was alone, but maybe I'm not. And so after that happening like time and time again, I started thinking maybe there's enough people out there that might want to share their creative work. And so it started as an open mic platform themed around grief and loss and death. so people couldn't believe it.

I think 40 people turned up to the first event and I was like, who are these people? I don't know. You know, a few people I knew, but like at least half were just strangers. I was like, wow, I had no idea. And so that kind of began the journey. And it was only at the beginning, like maybe once or twice a year.

griefandlight (18:28.322)
We, yeah, I think it was just once a year I'd run an open mic in August around this day called Dying to No Day, which is, it's actually today in Australia, the 8th of August. Just realized. We're talking about it. now that we're recording, it's actually the date. What is Dying to No Day. And it's really, it's about, it's an initiative that encourages people to have conversations about death and grief and dying and just within their communities. And so.

That was sort of my one, you know, mark every year I do an open mic. And then eventually I thought, I feel like I want to do more. Like I think, you know, there might be people who want to share their story or express their grief, but they don't know how to write creatively or they don't know how to, yeah, express themselves creatively. So then I thought I want, you know, maybe to eventually run workshops. And so.

But then even before that, I had a website actually where people could send in their work. And so it was sort of like an online exhibition and that was, it was called Soul Arts at the time. Beautiful. Yeah. then You don't have it anymore or you still have it? No, I don't have that. It was, there was so many other kind of groups and other projects that were called Soul Arts. So I just eventually kind of thought, I think I need a new name that isn't so common.

Yeah. then, so yeah, and then eventually I did start workshops and sort of, did some education and talks. Yeah. It's been like, wow, you know, I'm actually doing it now. So, you know, I still have my own creative practice. I love letting people know that it's okay if they do share anything around grief because like, I'm so comfortable with that. And so even in my general creative writing workshops, people often do write about their loved ones or.

They often do share about grief or sadness and different emotions that are part of grief and I can hold that space for them. That's beautiful. And I know that you also studied or you did your thesis in, I don't want to butcher it. So I think it was forgery and grief or that word in my gap, something like that. It's actually very interesting to me because I said, yes, in this work, one of the most powerful outlets is writing.

griefandlight (20:41.346)
So whether that's journaling, whether that's poetry, letter writing, whatever it is, there is something incredibly powerful and transformative about being able to express grief wants to be witnessed and expressed and that sometimes we don't feel comfortable speaking it out loud to ourselves, to other people or in a group setting. So the alternative that is more private and intimate is that writing. And I think it's so beautiful. And I know that you...

focus some of your studies on that. So share whatever you like about that. I it was a idea. So it was a practice -based thesis. So because I was already in doing the work, I did a thesis around the impact of poetry performance and community on grief and loss. And those were kind of the three things were part of my practice and how I was sort of addressing grief, I guess, and connecting with people around grief. so, yeah, I found that, there's other...

people that have already sort of studied this and there's so many different outcomes of sharing firstly like performance sharing your story, people actually gain insights from hearing poetry or hearing stories from others and all reading, they gain insights around how they can deal with grief because within the poetry or within the story you're hearing

the person addressing grief in their own way. And so you're sharing insights when you're sharing your story. And also people obviously feel seen and feel less alone because when you hear something and you can relate to it or you've had a common experience, you think, okay, it's not just me. It reduces that sense of loneliness. And just, guess, expressing, if you were expressing yourself through writing, there's a lot of catharsis. It's an outlet.

for your emotions and so they're not bottled up inside and that's healthy, you know, to find an outlet for your emotions. When you write and then read what you've written, sometimes actually it surprises you like what you've come up with and you actually learn a lot about yourself. So it's like a tool for self -discovery, self -awareness and you can actually learn more about your experience, what you're experiencing in life through writing because it's, yeah,

griefandlight (22:58.326)
It gives grief or it gives your experience a form, form that you can see. You learn more about yourself and grief when you're expressing yourself through writing. So it's not just a record. It's also, you know, it is a record of the moment, what you're going through in the moment. So it is like a form of documentation as well, but it's more than that. It's also form of like learning and self -awareness. And then through that, through learning more about yourself, you can kind of integrate that.

into your life as well. yeah, community as well. It's so valuable. I think you already know that, but community is so valuable because again, it's like validation. It's feeling seen and acknowledged through the grief journey. You're not alone. You're actually sharing that grief with others. They say, I think it's a Swedish proverb. It's it's joy shared is joy doubled.

sorrow shared is sorrow halved or grief shared is grief halved. That's beautiful. And it's very, very true. Yeah. So I think of that and I think, yeah, that's, that is true. Like when you, when you're having a joyous moment with someone, it's like, it's double the happiness. And then when you're sharing your grief or your sorrow, it's like, you feel like it lightened your load a little bit because it's not just on you. They're helping you. They're holding that for you as well, for with you. And mirroring it back to you in a way.

There's a connotation for a lot of people who say, I don't want to be negative. I don't want to share it because I don't want to be negative. And I find that it's the opposite of being negative. It's life affirming, it's connection, it's expression. It's all the things opposite of negative. It's just for whatever reason we've been taught not to feel anything that's uncomfortable. So I think it is very powerful. Even with writing for all the reasons that you stated, I remember at the beginning of my grief journey, I can't remember where I saw this, probably on Instagram somewhere.

Somebody said, you will actually want to document how you're feeling in the moment as much as you want to escape this moment. Someday you're going to want to look back on it. So leave yourself these breadcrumbs of your journey through grief. I have this journal where I read my entries of like the first week and I almost don't even know who wrote that. And it's bittersweet, but it's also interesting to have a very marked representation of how it has shifted over time.

griefandlight (25:19.296)
and it's beautiful, say, wow, this has been something and it's like you say you learn so much about yourself and your grief. So very, very powerful tools. And so I know that you implement not just the writing, you do music, you do group work, one -on -ones, all these things with the Grief Cocoon community and individual services. So talk a little bit about what that looks like, how people can work with you and what comes out of the Grief Cocoon. Yeah, so there's actually a community, like a mobile app that

people can download and there's resources on that. There's coping tools for times when you're feeling overwhelmed or sad or anxious or stressed. So you can sort of just go and find different evidence -based tools to actually deal with that. And then I did start at the grief circles. I'm sort of still trying to find my rhythm in terms of the, whether it's, you know, monthly or nightly, but I kind of also do some live streams where it's just.

every week or so sharing like a spotlight on a particular aspect of grief and so sharing insights and tools through that. And it's really about community as well, connecting with others. And there's groups specifically, know, for specific losses where you can connect with others who've experienced similar loss. And I also do one -on -one work where I've done where

It might include movements. So I studied grief movement and different ways that you can use movement, breath and sound to process the emotions and the, guess, different things that come with grief, like whether it's regret or guilt or there's so many different, you know, it's so complex. So using the body and using the breath and sound, I think it's really powerful. I've really started, you know, valuing that more so over the last

maybe 10 years where it's like, well, maybe, yeah, maybe eight years where I realized that, actually I can move through my emotions and, know, words are great too. Writing is great too, but I can also move through them. And that really helps with processing and, and, and just feeling like allowing the emotion to have a, an outlet. so one -on -one I can tailor movement sequences or tailor writing prompts. And so.

griefandlight (27:43.126)
Yeah, people can just get in touch when, depending on what they need, you know, whether it's just a place for their grief, you know, there's the app where you can just post anytime you want about your grief and, be acknowledged. And then there's one -on -one support and then occasionally I'll have group work as well. Really wonderful because you're addressing it on all fronts.

Grief is a mind -body -spirit experience. And one thing that's become abundantly clear is that it truly is moved through the body. The body is the sacred mechanism through which we move all these emotions. And it knows what to do. We just have to know how to activate it and how to use it.

for that purpose. And I'm curious, you said movement, like what would an example of a type of movement that you would instruct somebody to do for their grief? It could be something simple, it doesn't have to be. Yeah, so the most like basic one is sort of just awareness of the breath. you know, one hand on the chest and one hand on the belly and just breathing in and out and just sensing that, like that sensation of breathing and then noticing whether there's any parts of your body that are feeling, you know, sore or that

when you have tingling or if there's any parts of your body that need more attention. And I think that's a good start. Just feeling your breath, listening to your breath and paying attention to your body and different scanning your body and paying attention to how you're feeling and how your physical body is going. Yeah. Creating that awareness and sense of how it is showing up in your body. That's very important. And I also know that you were

on a very long road trip exploring, I think it was Eastern Australia. This was all prompted sort of by grief or maybe fully by grief. Tell us about that. You have the most amazing photos, such a eat, pray, love type of vibe right there. Say, you know what? I'm scratching the original plan. Let's just do this other thing. It looks beautiful. It looked magical. And every time you kind of checked in, it was in different locations. So say a little bit about that and how that's impacted your grief or vice versa.

griefandlight (29:48.292)
thanks for bringing this up. Yeah. So I decided, well, it all started with a trip to far North Queensland in Cairns, which is a long way up the East coast of Australia. And I fell in love with this place. It was just, and they have this rainforest, the Daintree rainforest, which is older than the Amazon. It's like.

250 million years old, something like that. And I was like, wow, how have I not known about this and how have I not visited this place? And I really just felt connected to it and it felt like a bit of a spiritual connection as well. you know, it's been years since I've thought I'd love to experience living somewhere else other than Melbourne, where I was born and where I grew up and where I've lived all my life, you know? And so,

Once I visited that place, actually, while I was there, I was offered the possibility of house sitting for six weeks the following year by my Airbnb hosts because they have this beautiful dog and I got along with the dog really well. so - Yeah. And I was like, I would come back. And so they actually followed through and that was sort of the catalyst, but really it was sort of more about this is something I've wanted to do for a long time and

Maybe I can make a trip of it and actually drive up and take my time, you know, going up and seeing different places because Cairns is a long way up. It's about four hours flight from Melbourne, but then driving, it's a long way. So I decided, I set a date. I said, I'm leaving in March. That's the cutoff date. And I'm just, you know, going travel up the East coast until I get to Cairns and I need to get to Cairns by May. And so I had.

couple of months to get there. And it was so amazing. There's so many different beautiful places along the East coast, know, just endless amount of endless number of beaches and communities and hikes. I do love hiking. so, and yeah, it was, it was inspired by my mom because some of her final words or messages to us was enjoy life. You know, I think she worked so hard all of her life and didn't get that chance to.

griefandlight (32:05.912)
just enjoy life and her and my dad used to sort of think, we'll work hard now and then when we retire, we'll enjoy life. And you know, he is now enjoying life, but she never got that. She never got there and she never got that chance. And so I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to live my life with that idea that I was guaranteed a long life. And so I thought, well,

What am I waiting for? You know, I've been saying this for years that I'm, you know, I was looking at places in Europe and then I thought, no, it's a bit too complicated. I'd stopped looking and I would look again and then I wouldn't do anything about it. so once, but when I got to Cannes, when I visited Cannes, I thought I really liked this place. I need to come back here. And so that house, it gave me that, you know, aim.

to go back and then I just thought, yeah, this is the year. I don't have any excuses. You know, it's never going to be the perfect time. I just need to do it. And so I just made that commitment. And actually I was really blessed. was house sitting before I moved. I was house sitting in a place that was right near where my mom was buried. I, before that was just before I left, I got to visit that.

the grave nearly every day and I'd never lived that close. And I didn't even know the house was that close to the cemetery until I did my usual run. And I was like, my God, I'm right. Like this is the cemetery. So yeah. So it was just by coincidence. I thought, yeah, I don't know. It just felt like, okay, this is, I'm going to visit the grave as often as I can. And then, you know, she's going to come with me as well, but it was nice to have that.

place, physical place to just spend time with her and talk to her and just, yeah, speak to her, sing to her and to all sorts of things. And then, yeah, I was ready to go. And so it's been pretty magical and I've gotten to Cairns and I have been there. Well, I'm in Melbourne at the moment visiting, but I've stayed there for

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about over two months, like two and a half months, and I'm going back and I think it feels like I want to stay there for a while and see what it's like to go through all the seasons and then decide what to do. It truly looks magical. If you're listening or watching, I'm going to link her Instagram so you can take a look at these beautiful spaces she's visited because it's really, really magical. I just find the coincidences and the synchronicity so beautiful, but...

They're still so magical when they do happen. So the fact that it was so close to your mother's resting place and in a way there is something very powerful about being able to visit a physical location and have that in touch moment with them. think that is very powerful and beautiful. So have you felt her presence through these travels? Have you had any experiences that are just beyond words maybe? Yeah, I've had times and I think I was, I don't know if it was this trip or if I was going to Adelaide, there was another trip before I left Melbourne and

I was driving on the freeway and all I could see were these like little butterflies flying around and they were there for like at least like a kilometer and it was just like, they were just everywhere. And I was like, what is going on? Like, this is so strange. I've never seen this in my life. And I think of her specifically when it's like little white or light green butterflies. And they were just like circling and there was thousands of them like on the freeway.

And it was just so strange and I thought, like it just, it just felt like, and later I learned that they were maybe moths, but I was like, I don't care. They look like butterflies and the same type of butterfly that reminds me of my mom. so I experienced that where I was just driving and there was just all these butterflies and I thought, okay, maybe, you know, this is a good sign. Like I'm on the right path.

And yeah, I've seen lots of butterflies along the way and yeah, it's just, I just think of her when I'm, you know, when you get to a good view and then you just have a moment and like, it's just.

griefandlight (36:25.26)
I was in Cairns actually, I was traveling while it was my mom's death anniversary. so I didn't realize it until the day and I was going to go hiking at a particular place. But when I remembered, when I realized it was that day, I sort of went further, further and I did even more, like a longer hike just to give me that time to.

think about it and to process it. And yeah, I thought I'm really lucky. just having space, think I realized, you know, space is really conducive to reflection and physical space. think it's been amazing. too. And nature, yeah. So I think nature has been really therapeutic. I always, you know, I think of her, I don't know, with different things and I still have, I wear her clothes. There's a yellow shirt that I've just worn so much since the peanut way.

And I just wear it as an everyday thing. I kind of forget sometimes that it's my mom's, but I tell people sometimes I'm like, yeah, this is my mom's. And if I, if I sort of gotten to know them and they know about my mom, I sort of say this is, you know, her shirt. So. It's so special. I have no doubt that those butterflies were definitely from your mom. And I like to think that these signs, whenever they make you pause, it's definitely a yes. You know, it's definitely their presence. How.

beautiful and how special. I want to be mindful and respectful of your time. know you have to go, but before we conclude, I want to give you some space and time to share maybe something that we haven't touched on that you do want to include in this conversation or something that's just in your heart for you to share today. One thing, yeah, that grief, you know, while it's pretty crap sometimes, you know, like it's, not easy and it's not

pleasant thing to go through. think on the other side of that, if you actually lean into it and really allow yourself to delve into it and explore it and express that, that whatever you're feeling, know, life becomes so much more richer and so much more meaningful and so much more precious. You realize, well, I'm still here, you know, even though my person

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isn't here physically anymore. I'm still here and I'm still alive. And so how can I honor that person with my life? And I think, you know, we can get bogged down and stuck in that phase of just feeling like it's awful and it's never ending. And there are times when you can feel that as well, but keep going. You I think you got to keep going and keep

trying to figure out how you will live with the grief and how you will process it and what you'll make of your life now that you've experienced grief. I think don't let it go to waste and don't, I guess I shouldn't say don't. I'm not telling anyone what to do. I don't want to tell anyone what to do. But it's just kind of like, yeah, still live your life and find ways to

still connect with that person that you love, find ways to incorporate them into your life in whatever way. You'll find that eventually the memories that you have won't just bring up the sadness, but they might also make you smile and they might also inspire you to do other things and to explore, be curious. I hope that made sense. It makes perfect sense. And I also love if you're watching the video.

how when we started the sun hadn't come out yet. And so it's similar to the journey of grief. Like it just feels very dark and almost dreary. Not almost, it's a very painful experience. At the beginning it's incredibly difficult, dark, gloomy. And then like right now the sun has come out. It's a completely new day, not to be corny, but it is. Now there is a lightness that comes with time. It doesn't heal everything and it doesn't fix everything, but there is a lightness that comes with time.

Even as you were retelling these stories, your face lit up and you're smiling because there is so much joy to be enjoyed and to be lived despite all these losses. So this is how we get to honor them. Thank you for sharing your beautiful mother with us and your journey. And as a final question, what would Gabby today say to Gabby after you? Give yourself permission to feel it. Beautiful. Thank you, Gabby. It has been an honor. I will link all your information in the show notes for anybody who wants to get in touch.

griefandlight (41:05.762)
Have a beautiful day. Keep sharing those amazing pictures. I love seeing them on your social media. And thank you for all that you do. Thank you for being here. Thanks so much, Nina. You're doing amazing work. Thank you.

or can also visit griefandlight .com for more information and updates. Thank you so much for being here, for being you, and always remember, you are not alone.